first handies on cx12 today.

[Trevor 0]

I agree that gluing is the only method that works so far.

I'm not totally convinced that the burble is the cause, though. This weekend I am going to do a jump with my camera mounted upside down. I will do a mix of head-down and sit and see how the footage looks. If the head down is screwy and the sit is fine, then the problem has to do with the orientation of the camera, not the burble. If that's the case, no baffle or neoprene is going to solve it- just the glue...

[bomb420 1]

Trevor I do not think that will act differently, but give it a shot. I thought I posted the picture of the stabilizing assembly but did not see it. Here it is, if anyone is interested. The y axis comes in and out of the picture, its drawn more like a z.

HYPOXIC

[Fast 0]

Quote

Trevor I do not think that will act differently, but give it a shot. I thought I posted the picture of the stabilizing assembly but did not see it. Here it is, if anyone is interested. The y axis comes in and out of the picture, its drawn more like a z.

Are the magnets what move it around in there? Would it be possible to just snap another magnet in there to hold it all in place w/o involving glue? Are the magnets maybe what lock it in place if it's disabled? Maybe stronger magnets would hold it better?

I wish sony would just make it so that a physical system locks the lens in place when stabilization is off. Best of both worlds!!

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[bomb420 1]

You can surely give it a shot, but the magnet is stationary and the coil is what moves in this assembly. Think you would just be making it worst, but we don't know until someone gives it a shot.

HYPOXIC

[bomb420 1]

This weekend I strapped the CX12 and TG1 on my helmet for comparison. Make your own decisions. I highly suggest turning on the high quality on youtube.

"Test jumps with a Sony TG1(Sony TG3) vs. a Sony CX12 (Sony CX11). CX12 has a Rayonx 5050 lens and the TG1 is stock. The TG1 was mounted poorly on a still camera bracket, so think there may be some wobble in that, the CX12 in a custom Terry Schumacher Cage. I have a cookie box for the TG1 on order so will reshoot the TG1 footage when I get it inhouse. All were jumps done in the same day. Both controlled by a HYPEYE D PRO. Most all body positions are covered. Head down to eventually belly on the horny gorilla jump, sitflying with the girl in black and pink with some back flying on that jumps' exit. And of course tracking with sudsyfist giving me the middle finger. Sorry about no really sick dives, its the summer in the middle of the desert Oh and probably want to switch to the HD mode for this video."

Vimeo - Sony TG1 vs. Sony CX12 (Better IMHO)

You Tube - CX12 vs. TG1 comparison in various body positions

HYPOXIC

[pierre3636 0]

the sitfly/back fly in the CX12 looks fine to me...

did you think it shook to much ?

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[frost 1]

Head up quality of CX12 is much better then CX7!
CX12 wins feet down, er... i mean hands down!

[Nyhus 0]

Got any pictures of the setup?

[PharmerPhil 0]

Quote

This weekend I strapped the CX12 and TG1 on my helmet for comparison......CX12 has a Rayonx (sic) 5050 lens and the TG1 is stock.

It's not quite a fair comparison. Keep in mind that the w/a lens on its own will reduce the shakiness of the camera (in this case the advantage goes to the CX12). In general, longer focal lengths amplify shakes on lenses.

I like your methodology, but you would really need to shoot the test with similar fields of view for it to be a fair test.

[oproot 0]

I am an owner of the HDR-CX12 and have taken it in the air on almost 10 jumps over the past two weeks. I can 100% confirm that the CX12 has the same image stabilization / image shakiness issue as other recent sony models (CX7). Here are a couple example sitfly videos:

Low Quality YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyUIYeOEvYU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qNcr6l7Frw

High Quality 720p HD:
http://69.59.17.157/skydive/jump196-720p.avi

Moving forward - As someone else suggested in this thread, it may be possible to operate and modify the camera to reduce/resolve the issue. I was actually crazy enough to take my entire camera apart, and locate the component responsible for the shaky video. I took pictures of the entire operation, but unfortunately do not have them available to post online at this time. I will be happy to post them as soon as I can!

The optical image stabilization consists of a single lens that slides on two axises. The movement of this lens is dictated by two electromagnets that "float" the lens in to position. During extreme freefall, it appears that the magnets are not powerful enough to hold this lens in a solid position.

Someone had mentioned that we should try to "glue" the lens in to place. Well folks, I took the plunge.

After completely disassembling the unit and locating the image stabilizer, I proceed by filling in the area where the lens has room to slide in either direction with a RTV silicone compound. This substance dries to a rubbery consistency, and would be removable in case the entire operation turns out to be a failure.

Once the silicone had dried and I managed to reassemble the device, it was time to do some testing on the ground. The first thing I noticed was that when powering the camera on, it took a solid 15 seconds to "turn on". Once the unit was on, an error code (E:62:10) flashed on the screen consistently. Apparently the device has detected that the image stabilizer lens is not operating "normally". Disregarding both of these new "issues", the camera appeared to be working perfectly normally!

After taking a few random videos and viewed them at full resolution, it was immediately apparent that my modification was NOT SUCCESSFUL! =( The image randomly flutters very similar to how the sitfly skydive videos turned out.

I believe the camera is trying to "fight" the silicone and causing the stabilization lens to vibrate back and forth. The choice of using a rubbery substance to lock the lens in place turned out to be a poor choice, as it provides enough wiggle room for the lens to vibrate.

I foresee 3 position solutions:

1) Use a real adhesive such as super glue!
2) Find a way to disable the electromagnets which control the lens
3) Give Sony a nice kick in the rear for not catering to the extreme sports market :]


I hope this information helps inform the community! Let me know if any of you have any questions!

-Tommy

[bomb420 1]

Yes, I should have done both without a wide angle lens for a better comparison. The flutter that I saw with the CX7 is not apparent or as much with the CX12 even with the same wide angle lens. I do not have access to the CX12 anymore or I would take some more shots. I think its a great little camera and may just pick one up for myself.

I can take a picture of the setup tonight but both are mounted on a bonehead optic with a aluminum plate mounted on top of it. There is a cage for the CX12 and the TG1 was just mounted on my still plate and looked like a shark fin.

I rather have people make their own decisions about these cameras. If the footage looks good for your own use, go with it. The CX12 has a bunch of cool features that the CX7 was lacking, white balance, quick access to settings etc. It takes unlimited stills while recording, but there is now a 12 second latency between the pictures.

I should also note that I had the stabilization turned off while recording on both cameras.

HYPOXIC

[bomb420 1]

Tommy,

Unplug the stabilization assembly from the system. This should help.

The flutter you are seeing is from the exposure. Let the camera error out before trying to record and that should stop the black/image flashing from occurring.

I'm not seeing the extreme flutter like I saw with the CX7 on your videos. Mainly seeing head shake.

HYPOXIC

[oproot 0]

Here is a high definition (720p) version of the same video. The video shakiness is much more apparent at this quality level.

http://69.59.17.157/skydive/jump196-720p.avi

FYI - This video is encoded using the XVID codec.

[oproot 0]

Here are the Sony CX12 disassembly pictures I had promised!

http://69.59.17.157/cx12/

Within my previous post, I stated that my modification was NOT successful:

Quote

I believe the camera is trying to "fight" the silicone and causing the stabilization lens to vibrate back and forth. The choice of using a rubbery substance to lock the lens in place turned out to be a poor choice, as it provides enough wiggle room for the lens to vibrate.

Since then, I had the chance to take the unit apart a second time. It turns out that there is a single ribbon cable which attaches the image stabilization circuitry. After disconnecting this ribbon cable, and reassembling the unit, I happily discovered that my previous issue was now resolved. The camera’s image quality is now flawless, and the image stabilization is now 100% disabled.

I will keep all of you posted with the results after this coming weekend. =)

-Tommy

[tripleflip18 0]

If you never done this thing in your life, would it be impossible, moderate or easy to do what you did

[oproot 0]

Quote

If you never done this thing in your life, would it be impossible, moderate or easy to do what you did

To be perfectly honest, the procedure to take the camera apart is rather a pain! Although, I have extensive experience with laptop disassembly and repair.

You essentially have to disassemble the entire unit before you reach the core optics. Once you crack open the optics section, you have to be very careful not to allow dust particles or fingerprints to reach the CMOS sensor and internal lenses.

If it turns out that this mod is successful, I would be willing to modify other cameras for a small fee.

-Tommy

[pierre3636 0]

haha this is brilliant !

hopefully not too far off topic - does anyone know of a place that sells neoprene condoms for the cx12 ?

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[Trevor 0]

I downloaded a pdf version of the Sony level 2 service manual for the CX-7. It has some great exploded diagrams and a nice section on avoiding being electrocuted by the flash capacitor. It is copyrighted so I can't distribute it myself. It cost me $19.50 from https://www.manualsparadise.com/ShowProductsForModel.do?model=M89642271

[MegaGoliath11 0]

Hey Tommy! its Glen, sorry I didn't make it back to Skydive Carolina to help you test the CX-12, I sprained my hand and couldn't jump.

[MegaGoliath11 0]

Dude modify my CX-7 camera! I'll pay the small fee, but if you break it you have to promise to say sorry!

[dynamite 1]

Quote

haha this is brilliant !

hopefully not too far off topic - does anyone know of a place that sells neoprene condoms for the cx12 ?

I have found that a chopped off slieve from an old wet suit fits perfectly. Particularly with a Raynox lens. You will need to tidy up the ends but it's easy to do yourself or ask your rigger nicely..

[pierre3636 0]

cool will try thank you for reply - ciao !

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[Cookie 0]

Nice work Trunk on the video upload,

We have just sorted out our Blackbox CX11/12 it is a good fit. I really like to extreme slow mo on this camera

Cookie

[bomb420 1]

Just curious Cookie, does the CX7 box fit the CX12? I have my CX7 mounted in a cage and the CX12 fit in it, but I do not have side walls.

HYPOXIC

[DSE 3]

The CX12 will fit your cage, Mark. The tight boxes will require the front to be cut out for the focus/control knob. No big thing, only takes a second.