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CrazyL

Camera flyers: What is your procedure right after main deployment?

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Among the other things you do, for this poll i'm mostly concerned about the order of which you deal with each component listed. If there is another order please post it .

THE REASON FOR THIS POLL... go to the incident forum , Lake Elsinore Fatality. Read on sky brothers and sky sisters, take a good hard look. I would like some response after the thread is read please. Thanks, Crazy Larry P.S. Skydiving camera people, just trying to save some for later.

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I'm one of the seven that chose:
"stow slider, release brakes, release wings, loosen chest strap" as I had a brake problem on a jump where I held rears on a long spot, then deployed brakes at around 1500 or so. Dumb move on my part, as I had a line jam up when I lifted the bottom of the toggle out of the keeper.
Besides, you can generally run farther on rears vs stowed brakes and rear risers.
Had I not experienced a brake problem earlier, I probably would still be undoing everything and then going for brakes.
This'll probably re-spark the debate of "once you've released your brakes, never let go of the toggles." I happen to disagree with that thought process.

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Thanks for voting and being a part of my skydiving education. Glad you were able to learn the lesson with firing the brakes at 1500'. I had one and only one, it happened at 1,000ft. I had been a low puller for a little while and was BASE jumping then too. I figured I could handle my decision altitude at 1,000ft. for slow speed mals. So I had pulled low and kept brakes stowed till decision altitude buddies flew up beside and a little behind, I unstowed the brakes to have an issue on the right. I looked at to each side seeing my buddies were clear as my hands were on the handles and soon as I got my head facing ahead I cutaway and pulled the reserve. was open 2-300ft below my chopped main. Thought I was the man. Nowadays after having a baglock type of mal (was a trailing toggle that wrapped the bridle on deployment went up with the bag) and figuring I spent 2,000 ft to get slowed down to a survivable speed. Was a mess, one thing after another ,camera helmet and lines were an issue to deal with on that one. I knew for sure during that mal that the rig I was jumping did not have a cypres. To get back to the topic, I think a debate should be ' release brakes, loosen chest' vs. 'loosen chest strap, release brakes' . Another good debate would be Large wings vs. small wings. If you need a clip on type wing maybe a better understanding of your speed range and how to perform within it could reduce wing size and the clips too. I have a few reasons why i'd be letting go of my toggles. hell I might even cut the brake lines with my handy hooknife. I have velcro toggles so i can place them on the riser and they stay put. Bonus is that they unstow much the same as my reserve toggles except i'll have to try a bit harder to get toggles on my reserve as they are smashed flat. I don't count on them being nice loops.

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I actually argued with a guy at Z-hills:| about my deployment sequence roughly one month before my brake "oops." I was sure I was right in deploying brakes last. He told me a couple stories, and finally said "Whatever. You'll figure it out on your own soon enough."
Well..I did.
I frequently release my toggles once I know I'm flying straight and stable, and use my legs for minor corrections in direction. For very long spots back, sometimes I need my hands to change a song or volume on my iPod (here come the flames) after a wingsuit jump. Sometimes I need my hands to release my legs, and sometimes I don't get the slider completely stowed, so I'll release for that, too. On some jumps, I've had to finish stowing the slider with toggles in my hands, while others I'll release the toggles to stow/wrap my slider. Hands are always in the toggles by 1500 per my audible first warning.
I've not experienced a cutaway yet (did I just jinx myself?) so I'm not sure how my methods may or may not save my life one day.

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This poll goes for more than just camera flyers. Many disciplines result in sometimes elaborate housekeeping under canopy. I don't fly with camera wings very often as I mostly just shoot VFS these days, but here are my routines:

When I'm belly flying:
-spot canopies / pick a direction to fly (noting which way jump run was)
-collapse and stow slider
-loosen chest strap
-remove booties
-grasp toggles
-give the steering lines a once over
-pop the brakes

When I'm shooting VFS:
-spot canopies / pick a direction to fly (noting which way jump run was)
-collapse and stow slider
-loosen chest strap
-grasp toggles
-give the steering lines a once over
-pop the brakes
-turn off camera

When I'm shooting belly stuff:
-spot canopies / pick a direction to fly (noting which way jump run was)
-remove swoop cords
-collapse and stow slider
-unclip lower wing attachments
-loosen chest strap
-remove booties
-grasp toggles
-give the steering lines a once over
-pop the brakes
-turn off camera

When I'm wingsuit flying:
-spot canopies / pick a direction to fly (jump run doesn't matter very much in this case, but now I have to note where the tandems are and if fitting in is going to be an issue)
-unzip arm wings and drop the loops
-collapse and stow slider
-loosen chest strap
-unzip leg wing
-remove booties
-stow leg wing
-grasp toggles
-give the steering lines a once over
-pop the brakes
-turn off camera

Something I was doing a lot of this past weekend in light of Shindig's incident was touching my handles in the plane and noting where they were, then touching my handles under canopy before I loosened my chest strap, and finally touching my handles again after I loosened my chest strap.

I think I might work a quick handle touch into my routine after loosening my chest strap in all the lists above.

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I just can't find a good reason to loosen the chest strap before popping the brakes.

Anyone have a GOOD reason? I think this fatality in Elsinore should make our choice pretty clear.
Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

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I just can't find a good reason to loosen the chest strap before popping the brakes.

Anyone have a GOOD reason? I think this fatality in Elsinore should make our choice pretty clear.

Hmmm. Have I got a good reason to loosen chest strap before popping the brakes? Not in the past 10 and a half days and nights. Have I got a good reason to unstow my brakes shortly after main deployment prior to loosening my chest strap? Yes. Do I have a good reason to have a tight chest strap while doing any kind of Canopy Relative Work, even flying close under canopy? Yes. In heavy traffic? yes. Maybe i'll get to be old some day if I can just continue to survive each helluva experience. I've over 6,400 helluva experiences, many more to come. If I could just quit getting banned from dz's my skydiving experience would be even greater. I'm up to 3 now.

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Good performance imo. So you do not loosen chest strap, do not release wings, nor swoopcords, nor booties. To me that gives you more focus on the more important stuff. Canopy and traffic checks, fly to dz and land without causing serious injury or death to you or anyone else, and for a bonus, you have fun with your cameras while having fun flying your parachute and enjoy enhancing the tandem student and possibly the TI's skydiving experience. All the while being on ready alert for canopy collision among other things. Your harness is still snug under canopy, not loose, which in turn puts your cutaway and reserve handles in a easier position to see and get to just in case you decide at or above your decision altitude that you want to use them while under canopy for whatever reason. Glad to hear you have a good time while shooting, me too. Do you have an RSL or AAD ?




I do not have an RSL hooked up. Should life go to hell, I would really like to get rid of that helmet, should it be snagged in any way, and the main canopy. Then I'll deploy my reserve. I do not wish to have an RSL do it's job when I really don't want it to.
Don't get me wrong. They have saved countless lives and have a great purpose in this sport. This is just my personal choice, and for my own reasons.
I do have a nice Cyp2. Love that thing. I have had 2 reserve rides to date. No RSL on either one.
No Cyp either.
I had some bad dreams and went shopping.
1st was a high speed spinner, 2nd was a total with a camera. Old digital 8. Rather painfull, but a good rigger rules.
Faster really is better.
I think the only reason for an AAD is should you be 'unavailable at pull time'...Be that due to whatever situation has come into play.
As for the harness being snug? OK, once again, my personal thing. I'm a girl, and we are rather flexible.
I can do 145+ in freefall, or suck it up and fall with the slowest. Being flexible has it's advantages.
I don't need to loosen the chest strap for anything.
My camera suit was made for someone a bit larger than I am. I can put a big sweatshirt and weights under it, or I can tuck it back behind the main lift web and just fly. One of my favorite video and still things to do is to crank some really hard turns, look up, and shoot vid and stills. You get the ground, sky, ground, (giggle) etc. I actually replaced the wings. The original ones were winglets. (?) Not sure on that spelling. That was what caused my total. I had to back out of a Kingair and pulled the pud off of my rig. I have since gone to a throw out.
No need to discuss this...
The new wings are really large. I made sure I could reach everything I needed to should I not be able to release them. I can float with the TM that weighs 150 lbs and a 90lb girl, or I can fall with the TM that goes 250 and that BIG student that can't get out of the door of the Cessna.
I have 4 kids. They have all jumped, and one is a licensed jumper. I try to stack the odds in my favor on every jump. I have no need to push certain things. I can do my job very well without doing so.
Just MY opinion...
BS,
Sue

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Why do some people fire a test shot on stills under canopy? Its not going to bring the lost free fall shots back if you did have a camera mal.



For me one less thing to worry about when on the ground. I know my camera is firing and happy. If something happened in freefall and the camera isn't then I know I have to immediately spent some time correcting it before the tandem/AFF gets down. :P

Besides, my test shot is of the Perris logo down the runway. Something that I want my students to have anyway. B|

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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Good performance imo. So you do not loosen chest strap, do not release wings, nor swoopcords, nor booties. To me that gives you more focus on the more important stuff. Canopy and traffic checks, fly to dz and land without causing serious injury or death to you or anyone else, and for a bonus, you have fun with your cameras while having fun flying your parachute and enjoy enhancing the tandem student and possibly the TI's skydiving experience. All the while being on ready alert for canopy collision among other things. Your harness is still snug under canopy, not loose, which in turn puts your cutaway and reserve handles in a easier position to see and get to just in case you decide at or above your decision altitude that you want to use them while under canopy for whatever reason. Glad to hear you have a good time while shooting, me too. Do you have an RSL or AAD ?




I do not have an RSL hooked up. Should life go to hell, I would really like to get rid of that helmet, should it be snagged in any way, and the main canopy. Then I'll deploy my reserve. I do not wish to have an RSL do it's job when I really don't want it to.
Don't get me wrong. They have saved countless lives and have a great purpose in this sport. This is just my personal choice, and for my own reasons.
I do have a nice Cyp2. Love that thing. I have had 2 reserve rides to date. No RSL on either one.
No Cyp either.
I had some bad dreams and went shopping.
1st was a high speed spinner, 2nd was a total with a camera. Old digital 8. Rather painfull, but a good rigger rules.
Faster really is better.
I think the only reason for an AAD is should you be 'unavailable at pull time'...Be that due to whatever situation has come into play.
As for the harness being snug? OK, once again, my personal thing. I'm a girl, and we are rather flexible.
I can do 145+ in freefall, or suck it up and fall with the slowest. Being flexible has it's advantages.
I don't need to loosen the chest strap for anything.
My camera suit was made for someone a bit larger than I am. I can put a big sweatshirt and weights under it, or I can tuck it back behind the main lift web and just fly. One of my favorite video and still things to do is to crank some really hard turns, look up, and shoot vid and stills. You get the ground, sky, ground, (giggle) etc. I actually replaced the wings. The original ones were winglets. (?) Not sure on that spelling. That was what caused my total. I had to back out of a Kingair and pulled the pud off of my rig. I have since gone to a throw out.
No need to discuss this...
The new wings are really large. I made sure I could reach everything I needed to should I not be able to release them. I can float with the TM that weighs 150 lbs and a 90lb girl, or I can fall with the TM that goes 250 and that BIG student that can't get out of the door of the Cessna.
I have 4 kids. They have all jumped, and one is a licensed jumper. I try to stack the odds in my favor on every jump. I have no need to push certain things. I can do my job very well without doing so.
Just MY opinion...
BS,
Sue

Wow, 4 kids that jump too! Liv'n the dream. You got alot of good reason to be good and prepared in this sport. Revisiting the RSL debate. I realize some of the pro's and con's that could affect me by wearing an RSL vs. no RSL. Frankly, both ways scare me equally. I've taken my chances without an RSL for thousands of jumps. I'm gonna wear it for a while now, i'm not afraid. Just a little bit scared. I can be better prepared for certain malfunctions by using an RSL while it can also cause other types of problems. Sucks to be in-between on such a controversial device.

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Why do some people fire a test shot on stills under canopy?



Why not? It doesn't take any time or distract me from other things and it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.;) I also know I am ready for that cool shadow swoop if it presents itself.
"... this ain't a Nerf world."

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Look up
Swear
Kick out of line twists
Check for other traffic
Undo handloops and leg clips
Turn off cameras (the line twists, swearing, and possibly a riser strike are always best caught on video )
Kill/stow the slider
Unstow the brakes

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I had an "oh shit" on Saturday. It started with pilot chute in tow. Unfortunately, the camera is on my left and I do the check over my right shoulder. Next came a line twist with a slight diving spiral. To top it off, I was 20' short of the cut landing area. I ended up in 4' high canola. From where my toe first went in to where I tumbled at the end, was about 30'. Good times!

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" oh shit " P/C in tow! Had one of those back in April. Once I got it free'd up and chunked the bridle and bag out to the right side into clean air, next came a hard riser smack against the side of my helmet. Helmet tried to come off but could'nt. Then came a nice on heading sniveller, open above 2,000ft. Was mentally prepared to begin reserve pull at 2,000ft if I had'nt cleared the p/c in tow. Glad I did'nt have to. Was a helluva fight to get the main out. For you: "oh shit", line twists and diving spiralling! Is Canola like corn? beans? grass? Sometimes the shit hits the fan over and over, then suddenly the ride is over and you walk away with a helluva experience. How did you get your main out? or did you?

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pitch and hope
deal with problems if needed.
clap and thumbs up congrats to who ever did the jump
turn off video camera and stills
turn to dz in breaks , most of the time im already headed home after opening...
thumb loops
slidder
chest strap
take a second look and traffic
breaks and set up to swoop.
change your break lines. for the love of your femurs.

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