MontyPyhton 0 #1 June 13, 2003 The most jumpers I asked agree with the statement that the reserve deployment from all major container manufacturers (Mirage, Vector, Javelin, Tear Drop, Atom, Infinity, Wings, Talon and all the others) are equal. But some manufacturers say that their reserve deployment is significant better. For example, Jump Shack says that their Racer deploys in the half of the time compared to other manufacturers. Mirage Systems say this about their products: "Billy Weber of Billy's Parachute Service in DeLand, one of the foremost riggers in the industry and a familiar face from videos like Pack Like A Pro, found that the overall reserve deployment system was "the fastest I've seen, and I've seen 'em all". As a result, he bought 2 Mirages for his personal use. " Is it truth oder advertisement??? And ist there a difference between Vector styled rigs and (semi) pop-tops? In my opinion a good reserve deployment is the most important argument for purchasing a rig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #2 June 13, 2003 What about looks? What about it staying shut when it's supposed to? I would say that's more important cos I want it to stay shut on every jump I do until I choose otherwise. A second here or a half second there - I don't give a shit. Plan your hard deck for reserve activation and stick to it. That way you won't need an extra 10th of a second. Just my thoughts - tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BBKid 0 #3 June 13, 2003 Not a rigger, never used a reserve, still on static line, so take as big a pinch of salt as you like. BUT, my rigger, and plenty of guys at my DZ have told me that as long as the design is by one of the big guys (not a copy), and made after 1990 or thereabouts, you should have absolutely no problem getting a reserve out within 400ft (not full inflation time, just launch and out of freebag). That said, I'd go with something as new as possible, for obvious reasons. Nick --------------------------- "I've pierced my foot on a spike!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paulagc 0 #4 June 13, 2003 Well, I like the Mirage because it's got an incredibly strong spring on the reserve p/c---stronger than many other rigs. That thing's going to have a great launch even in bad conditions. I like the Racer because there're no flaps impeding the launch of the p/c. However, the reality is that the testing shows that most reserve opening times are very similar, some of the comfort of these factors may just be in my mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #5 June 13, 2003 They are all going to be the same for the most part...Its just that Mirage and Vector need to have a higher spring pressure because they have to go through 4 flaps instead of 2...hence the stronger spring. Its a fact but mostly used for marketing, IMO. Which flavor of ice cream is the best??? Chocolate chip is my choice!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sid 1 #6 June 13, 2003 at the symposium I watched video of Bill Booth's Skyhook, consistently deploying a reserve in 70 feet. This device, coupled with a dual riser rsl, has to provide the fastest reserve deployment ever. It was amazing to watch. www.sidsrigging.com there's a write up about it on hre somewhere (check articles)Pete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites metallica 0 #7 June 13, 2003 Even though I agree that Mirage has a strong spring, the free bag is held in place by 4 flaps. My question is, how does the presence of more flaps increase the possibility of complications? I've seen the Advance containers manufactured by Parafun where the reserve free bag simply sits in the reserve tray and is held by only top and bottom flaps. It's so simple that even a non-jumper can figure out how the system works: Pull the handle, top and bottom flaps fall away, spring jumps out dragging the free bag and reserve. Neat! http://www.parafun.com/advance2-en.php But again like you said, there are Racers... Speed kills! So does everything else... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,396 #8 June 13, 2003 > It's so simple that even a non-jumper can figure out how the system works: I'd like to pack one of those and see how well the reserve bridle is protected. >But again like you said, there are Racers... And Reflexes. The Reflex has slightly less loop drag to deal with, since it uses a molar freebag and only one loop. Probably not a significiant issue if the springs are in good shape though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #9 June 13, 2003 my teardrop was packed in such a way last time that when I popped it to get a cypres put in, the pc didn't even hit the floor cos of all the bridle drag (and no I've never had a problem with it before). Needless to say it was packed by someone else____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rdutch 0 #10 June 13, 2003 QuoteWell, I like the Mirage because it's got an incredibly strong spring on the reserve p/c---stronger than many other rigs. That thing's going to have a great launch even in bad conditions. Relative Workshop uses the same, or shold I say Mirage uses the same, oh well they use the same spring, I believe its a 44 lb spring, Ive popped many Vectors and they all have launched very well, even when wet. But no other manufacturer has a reserve system as fast as the skyhook. I jumped one and was amazed at how fast it was, and clean, my attempt at intentional unstableness was quickly stopped, and I had a beautiful, fast as hell, but soft opening. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkySlut 0 #11 June 13, 2003 skyhook has nothing to do with spring strenght...its an advanced RSL...essentially. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites metallica 0 #12 June 14, 2003 I've seen one being packed. The bridle sits on the molar free bag, just beneath the spring. With the free bag in the reserve tray, you basically stow the whole bridle, compress the spring and close the top and bottom flaps. The contoured nature of the free bag allows the bridle to set in, with the spring acting as a 'cap' to keep it in. I'll try to post a section of the packing manual which is available in PDF. Speed kills! So does everything else... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KellyF 16 #13 June 16, 2003 Quote But no other manufacturer has a reserve system as fast as the skyhook. Ray, did you miss the blurb in Skydiving about Eric Fradet's system that he patented in '93 and has been an option on the (I think) Advance rig for quite some time? As for deployment times and distances, they're all going to be within one or two tenths of a second, but I would like to see the difference between a stow pocket Racer freebag and one of their new bags with rubber bands.VSE on Facebook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,396 #14 June 16, 2003 >The bridle sits on the molar free bag, just beneath the spring. So it sits under the PC cap, between the top edge and the closing loop? Or is it V'ed to go on either side of the closing loop as well? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #15 June 17, 2003 QuoteIts just that Mirage and Vector need to have a higher spring pressure because they have to go through 4 flaps instead of 2...hence the stronger spring. Its a fact but mostly used for marketing, IMO. Yes and don't forget they also have to pull the freebag past an additional 1 and 2 flaps, respectively.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites metallica 0 #16 June 17, 2003 V'ed on the sides. Speed kills! So does everything else... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crazy 0 #17 June 18, 2003 QuoteQuoteIts just that Mirage and Vector need to have a higher spring pressure because they have to go through 4 flaps instead of 2...hence the stronger spring. Its a fact but mostly used for marketing, IMO. Yes and don't forget they also have to pull the freebag past an additional 1 and 2 flaps, respectively. What kind of spring is strong enough to pull the freebag past the flaps? The same as in DZ, the movie? Be careful with these things :-)-- Come Skydive Asia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #18 June 18, 2003 QuoteIn my opinion a good reserve deployment is the most important argument for purchasing a rig. Then you should get a "Wings" Container. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
sid 1 #6 June 13, 2003 at the symposium I watched video of Bill Booth's Skyhook, consistently deploying a reserve in 70 feet. This device, coupled with a dual riser rsl, has to provide the fastest reserve deployment ever. It was amazing to watch. www.sidsrigging.com there's a write up about it on hre somewhere (check articles)Pete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metallica 0 #7 June 13, 2003 Even though I agree that Mirage has a strong spring, the free bag is held in place by 4 flaps. My question is, how does the presence of more flaps increase the possibility of complications? I've seen the Advance containers manufactured by Parafun where the reserve free bag simply sits in the reserve tray and is held by only top and bottom flaps. It's so simple that even a non-jumper can figure out how the system works: Pull the handle, top and bottom flaps fall away, spring jumps out dragging the free bag and reserve. Neat! http://www.parafun.com/advance2-en.php But again like you said, there are Racers... Speed kills! So does everything else... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #8 June 13, 2003 > It's so simple that even a non-jumper can figure out how the system works: I'd like to pack one of those and see how well the reserve bridle is protected. >But again like you said, there are Racers... And Reflexes. The Reflex has slightly less loop drag to deal with, since it uses a molar freebag and only one loop. Probably not a significiant issue if the springs are in good shape though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #9 June 13, 2003 my teardrop was packed in such a way last time that when I popped it to get a cypres put in, the pc didn't even hit the floor cos of all the bridle drag (and no I've never had a problem with it before). Needless to say it was packed by someone else____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #10 June 13, 2003 QuoteWell, I like the Mirage because it's got an incredibly strong spring on the reserve p/c---stronger than many other rigs. That thing's going to have a great launch even in bad conditions. Relative Workshop uses the same, or shold I say Mirage uses the same, oh well they use the same spring, I believe its a 44 lb spring, Ive popped many Vectors and they all have launched very well, even when wet. But no other manufacturer has a reserve system as fast as the skyhook. I jumped one and was amazed at how fast it was, and clean, my attempt at intentional unstableness was quickly stopped, and I had a beautiful, fast as hell, but soft opening. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #11 June 13, 2003 skyhook has nothing to do with spring strenght...its an advanced RSL...essentially. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metallica 0 #12 June 14, 2003 I've seen one being packed. The bridle sits on the molar free bag, just beneath the spring. With the free bag in the reserve tray, you basically stow the whole bridle, compress the spring and close the top and bottom flaps. The contoured nature of the free bag allows the bridle to set in, with the spring acting as a 'cap' to keep it in. I'll try to post a section of the packing manual which is available in PDF. Speed kills! So does everything else... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #13 June 16, 2003 Quote But no other manufacturer has a reserve system as fast as the skyhook. Ray, did you miss the blurb in Skydiving about Eric Fradet's system that he patented in '93 and has been an option on the (I think) Advance rig for quite some time? As for deployment times and distances, they're all going to be within one or two tenths of a second, but I would like to see the difference between a stow pocket Racer freebag and one of their new bags with rubber bands.VSE on Facebook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #14 June 16, 2003 >The bridle sits on the molar free bag, just beneath the spring. So it sits under the PC cap, between the top edge and the closing loop? Or is it V'ed to go on either side of the closing loop as well? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #15 June 17, 2003 QuoteIts just that Mirage and Vector need to have a higher spring pressure because they have to go through 4 flaps instead of 2...hence the stronger spring. Its a fact but mostly used for marketing, IMO. Yes and don't forget they also have to pull the freebag past an additional 1 and 2 flaps, respectively.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metallica 0 #16 June 17, 2003 V'ed on the sides. Speed kills! So does everything else... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazy 0 #17 June 18, 2003 QuoteQuoteIts just that Mirage and Vector need to have a higher spring pressure because they have to go through 4 flaps instead of 2...hence the stronger spring. Its a fact but mostly used for marketing, IMO. Yes and don't forget they also have to pull the freebag past an additional 1 and 2 flaps, respectively. What kind of spring is strong enough to pull the freebag past the flaps? The same as in DZ, the movie? Be careful with these things :-)-- Come Skydive Asia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #18 June 18, 2003 QuoteIn my opinion a good reserve deployment is the most important argument for purchasing a rig. Then you should get a "Wings" Container. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
