Camera rating

[pilotdave 0]

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"Come with me on a tandem, but don't get very close to me. I want to make sure you are flying that suit and not the other way around. If you don't scare me, you can come again."

To me, that's why we should have a BSR. Let the smart people come up with a minimum experience level, then make even the dumb tandem instructors follow it.

Why should anybody be in the air with a tandem with equipment they haven't even learned to use yet? "If you don't scare me, you can come again." And what if you do scare him? Wait a week and then try again? What if you do worse than scare him? What if you do perfect for the first 3 and then scare him?

I don't know that a rating is required, but I think when it comes to shooting video for tandems, there should be some minimums "set in stone," not just rules from manufacturers that aren't enforced or the most basic recommendations from USPA. A TM that allows someone with 60 jumps to shoot video should face repercussions.

Dave

[quade 3]

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Should a BSR be created for camera flyers flying with tandems?.

Ya know, until a few years ago, we didn't even have the recommendations that currently exist and MOST people did just fine.

Should the recommendations exist? Yes, they give people an idea of what most people thing are some acceptable standards yet leave a bit of leeway for exceptional cases without the hassles of waivers ect.

A BRS? Really? Does it have to rise to that level? Trust me, if a person is too stupid to follow the current recommendations, then a BSR probably isn't going to stop them either.

Set an industry standard, but leave it up to individuals and their own ethos.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[dragon2 0]

Maybe it's not so much about the quality of the footage, as about removing some of the stress you get when camera people discover too late (ie, in the plane) they have a problem of some kind. Some of those problems (focus, weird icons in display, nightshot on) are easily fixable if you know your equipment. Less stress = more safety. You WILL have technical problems like that at some point, but you can minimize them by RTFM and by planning ahead.

Then again, your rating system is maybe indeed over the top for something like this, but why not print out a pop quiz for the DZO to help assess if someone is ready to fly camera?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[ficus 0]

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Why should anybody be in the air with a tandem with equipment they haven't even learned to use yet?

Did you miss the part where he told me to get 20-25 jumps with my suit and helmet under my belt first? We're talking about being safe here, not shooting good footage. Camera wings are not that hard to learn to fly.

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"If you don't scare me, you can come again." And what if you do scare him? Wait a week and then try again?

Presumably I would be sent off to get more experience, and could come back for another try when I thought I was ready and had dealt with whatever issues he noticed on the skydive.

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What if you do worse than scare him? What if you do perfect for the first 3 and then scare him?

I guess he was confident that I wasn't enough of a dumbass to go tracking into him and his passenger. If I'd gotten too close, I probably would have been shooed off.

This particular instructor is an experienced video flyer and has probably 5000 tandems. I suspect he was able to gather the information he needed to decide if he was going to let me come in close by watching me on that one jump.

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A TM that allows someone with 60 jumps to shoot video should
face repercussions.

Probably so. But if not 60 jumps, then what? Once that is answered, why? I think UPT's numbers are too strict, but they do at least recommend RW jumps and not just "jumps".

Flying safely with a tandem involves about 2 things as far as I can tell: knowing where you're not supposed to be and having the flying skills not to end up there.

Jump numbers are just such a crappy way of deciding if someone has the skillset to get up there and be safe. But maybe they are the best we can do.

[Icon134 0]

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Camera wings are not that hard to learn to fly.

I disagree... I'm only begining to learn all the great things I can do with my camera wings/suit..

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[DSE 3]

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Camera wings are not that hard to learn to fly.

Riiiigggghhhhhttttttt. That's why guys like Norm Kent continue to seek training from others as well.
Maybe you meant "It's not that hard to learn to not flail around with a pair of wings under your arms"?

[ficus 0]

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Camera wings are not that hard to learn to fly.

Riiiigggghhhhhttttttt. That's why guys like Norm Kent continue to seek training from others as well.
Maybe you meant "It's not that hard to learn to not flail around with a pair of wings under your arms"?

Maybe you read "not that hard to master"?

What I actually wrote is quoted above.

[rwieder 0]

I honestly don't have an opinion on this topic. (Ideas, but no opinions,) because i don't care and my vote wouldn't count anyway. I've seen TM!'s i won't fly around. I have seen in my years of skydiving vidiots that didn't even have a A license. One of the best vidiots i've ever seen didn't even hace a C license. I've seen TM!'s lie about their jumps, get a D and obtain their TM1 licences. Did stuff go wrong, sure it did. Can it be regulated, of course. And by who? Do we want the USPA, or the FAA involved in this? I would think not.

At the end of the day this is what it's about, in this order: (IMO)

1) Egotistical maniacs
2) Getting chicks
3) $$$
4) Free beer
5) Notiriety, if you by chance get good enough to be somebody.

IMHO, vidiots that are really good have a lot of natural potential, the rest is learned "On the fly" (No pun intended)

I fly camera and shoot stills, but nothing commercial yet. There is one gentleman i'm going to ask who has years of experience, to ("Take me under his wing" Again, no pun intended) I've flown 3 different cam/video helmets which i have bought piece by piece and assembled them myself. They all work just fine. I researched and learned about my equipment on my own. I've never had a problem with the wings on my suits, or swoop cords, but i've been bitch slapped more than once by my port side riser when i was flying my Optik Illusion. Then i bought a FlatTop Pro from a skydiver who fell on hard times, i'll be putting it through it's "Sea Trails" this weekend. I've also got a hand cam glove which i haven't quite had the nerve to fly yet, i'll get there.

The key is to learn your ewuipment first, from hard ware to fly ware. Learn to fly your body in any position, and practice your ESP's constantly, until your sick of them. Biggest thing: Check your egos and attitudes at the house prior to arriving for a day of skydiving please. They have no place on the DZ.

As i said, my experience is very limited, so take what i say with a grain of salt. What would go big with me, is a "Mentorship Program" at DZ's.

Yeah, i know "Wishful Thinking"

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[tonyhays 86]

Ask all the Australian camera flyers how well that worked out for them

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[DSE 3]

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Ask all the Australian camera flyers how well that worked out for them

How about we ask you instead?

[tonyhays 86]

They either became tandem instructors or stopped working. I know of only one dropzone in AU that offers outside video, rest are all handicam.

Any Aussies out there that can say if there is more than just one DZ doing outside video?

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[rhys 0]

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Any Aussies out there that can say if there is more than just one DZ doing outside video?

I am no Aussie but I am working in Cairns, Australia.

This is where the handicam phenomenon began.

The instructors at Pauls parachuting wanted a pay rise and Paul told them they can hgave one if it makes him more money.

They started doing handicam and the rest is history.

Both of the dropzones here offer both Outside camera and handicam.

Handicam is not a replacement for outside video. it is simply a cheaper/option.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[pope 0]

I think that a video rating should be much like a PRO rating or an AD rating. I don't think it should be manditory, but I think that it should let people know that you are capable of certain compulsory skills and knowledge in the area of camera flying. For instance, maybe guy 'A' shows up at your dz saying "I have 500 camera jumps" and proceeds to jump with a tandem, not be able to keep the tandem dominant and in frame, and generally sucks. Wheras, guy 'B' shows up and says "I have 500 camera jumps--and a camera flyer rating." You know that he has been tested on staying with tandems of varying speeds, keeping them in frame, etc. and you might feel a bit more comfortable putting him/her to work.