wildcard451 0 #26 December 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteWhen I scan for traffic below during deployment, I can get 'my' plain vanilla 9 cell to snivel considerably longer than 'normal' by pulling both rears down a foot. Does that work on a HP or just make the opening more radical? I'm not sure how to answer. In my experience, pulling on the rear risers (or pumping the toggles) will tend to speed up the openings, not make them longer. Just a thought, but if he is pulling them down a good 12" and holding it there, is that far enough to completely "stall" the rear of the canopy and prevent it from inflating - thereby increasing snivel time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #27 December 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhen I scan for traffic below during deployment, I can get 'my' plain vanilla 9 cell to snivel considerably longer than 'normal' by pulling both rears down a foot. Does that work on a HP or just make the opening more radical? I'm not sure how to answer. In my experience, pulling on the rear risers (or pumping the toggles) will tend to speed up the openings, not make them longer. Just a thought, but if he is pulling them down a good 12" and holding it there, is that far enough to completely "stall" the rear of the canopy and prevent it from inflating - thereby increasing snivel time? In my case anyway, it seems to change the angle of attack enough that the back 1/3 or so of the canopy is just flapping not inflating. Hold it long enough and the nose does start banging into itself making a 'U' But again, this is on a big 210 with a pocket slider...it usually opens pretty consistently stable, no twists etc. I don't know but I'm guessing a smaller less forgiving canopy might get pretty squirrelly changing the angle like that. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #28 December 13, 2011 Quote Quote Quote When I scan for traffic below during deployment, I can get 'my' plain vanilla 9 cell to snivel considerably longer than 'normal' by pulling both rears down a foot. Does that work on a HP or just make the opening more radical? I'm not sure how to answer. In my experience, pulling on the rear risers (or pumping the toggles) will tend to speed up the openings, not make them longer. Just a thought, but if he is pulling them down a good 12" and holding it there, is that far enough to completely "stall" the rear of the canopy and prevent it from inflating - thereby increasing snivel time? I know this shouldn’t need to be said, but, I'm going to say it anyway. Not all canopies react the same way to inputs! Because this works for Twardo's larger canopy does not mean it'll work for yours. What should be talked about perhaps, especially in this thread, is that you can "fly your openings". Twardo stated he found a way to slow his openings, I've found I can keep my Stiletto on heading with some “Body English”, etc. Beginners should note that this is an advanced technique and they should just concentrate on staying stable during opening. However, someone flying a cross-braced canopy should be flying his/her opening. You don’t stop looking around just because you pulled the little magic handle. Keep flying from the time you leave the plane until you drop your gear on the packing floor.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #29 December 13, 2011 I know this shouldn’t need to be said, Quote No, I'm glad you did! I didn't mean for anyone to be trying it without having a pretty good idea what to expect. In my mind I see a HP canopy doing all kinds of radical stuff, maybe even winding up to an EP. That's why I asked Dave for his input. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GobbleGobble 0 #30 December 13, 2011 QuoteThey tracked and both had off heading openings. These small canopies even when still in brakes still haul ass. They tried to avoid the collision, but were unable. Both had to chop. The lesson is to track like hell and this should serve as a wake up to those that don't think that small HP canopies require better skills in ALL aspects, not just landing. This happened to me on Saturday. Broke off from a four way two of us had 180 openings and were flying straight at each other. No collision we were easily able to turn away. You just have to heads up during all phases of the jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wildcard451 0 #31 December 13, 2011 QuoteI know this shouldn’t need to be said, but, I'm going to say it anyway. Not all canopies react the same way to inputs! Because this works for Twardo's larger canopy does not mean it'll work for yours. I'm about due for a repack anyways.......what could go wrong? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjumpenfool 2 #32 December 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteI know this shouldn’t need to be said, but, I'm going to say it anyway. Not all canopies react the same way to inputs! Because this works for Twardo's larger canopy does not mean it'll work for yours. I'm about due for a repack anyways.......what could go wrong? I get the camera slot. Go for it!! Video to follow...Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckakers 370 #33 December 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteThe lesson is to track like hell and this should serve as a wake up to those that don't think that small HP canopies require better skills in ALL aspects, not just landing. Good point. I've gotten into the habit of doing a traffic scan while my canopy snivels. Looking at the canopy isn't going to help anything or effect the opening, but looking around might certainly help out if you pick up on a traffic problem, you'll be ready to manuver as soon as the canopy becomes 'controlable'. The idea is that the skydive doesn't end when you track off. You might think you're alone, but there are still other jumpers up there with you, and you're not alone. Along the same lines, once open, I've gotten into the habit of scanning up and down the jumprun for the groups that exited before and after me. I'm looking to see that they are open, and not flying in my direction. You know the 'line' jumprun follows, and you should be able to spot those groups with no problem before beginning to fly your canopy along jump run. Along those lines, an area of specific concern is in the last RW group and the first freefly group to exit on a pass. In that case, the later exiting freefly group will pass the RW group in freefall and open before them. It's important for both groups to be aware of the differences, and mindful of them. The freeflyers need to hold back from flying back down the jumprun once they are open, or they risk flying right under the still-freefalling RW group. +1. Sounds almost exactly like my standard procedures.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckakers 370 #34 December 13, 2011 Quote so setting the brakes deeper does not reduce the closing speed as you put it? If you are referring to setting the brakes deeper when the brakes are set for opening, that wouldn't be a good idea. The manufacturers test their designs extensively and put the brake settings where they are for a reason. Changing that setting could lead to extremely hard openings & even a catastrophic failure of lines and/or fabric, failure to open and all, or anything in between. We used to jack around a bit with the older F-111 canopies doing stuff like changing brake settings and modifying sliders to change opening characteristics (cutting holes in the center of the slider to speed up openings on old worn out canopies was a favorite), but making changes would not be advisable on today's higher performance designs and zero-P fabrics. The results could be devastating and I doubt you would get a dime back from the manufacturer when they learned that you did your own mods.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 78RATS 0 #35 December 15, 2011 Not to you Chuck. When you train for nationals, you sometimes take shit deeper than you should. Result: shorter track. I have the same video, sans collision, from a training jump. Just a highlight reel clip now. Pretty sure I was high. haha. "That's what we have here. Failure to communicate." Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 197 #36 December 21, 2011 I like the painfully long pause after landing to try and take in what just happened. Had a few of those moments myself.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aarco 0 #37 December 22, 2011 some years back I got to lazy after filming an aff jump - I and the aff guys working in Elsinore at the time -ran up the wall at one point guarding our cool guy egos- I swallowed the I am humble pill with the issue- In one solid mind frame working any issue - there are no egos when it comes to saftey - I had a center point - stick to the plan - don't get to creative and crazy - I was always easy at working with husband and wife work teams - it felt like family thing - -being standerd and performable is sky skills 101 - track stait track hard open safe -stay aware- so I looked at my health and my tracking skill- At the end of the month I was better at tracking - Having something never beats doing (>|<) Iam building things - Iam working on my mind- I am going to change this world - its what I came here 4- - - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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GobbleGobble 0 #30 December 13, 2011 QuoteThey tracked and both had off heading openings. These small canopies even when still in brakes still haul ass. They tried to avoid the collision, but were unable. Both had to chop. The lesson is to track like hell and this should serve as a wake up to those that don't think that small HP canopies require better skills in ALL aspects, not just landing. This happened to me on Saturday. Broke off from a four way two of us had 180 openings and were flying straight at each other. No collision we were easily able to turn away. You just have to heads up during all phases of the jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #31 December 13, 2011 QuoteI know this shouldn’t need to be said, but, I'm going to say it anyway. Not all canopies react the same way to inputs! Because this works for Twardo's larger canopy does not mean it'll work for yours. I'm about due for a repack anyways.......what could go wrong? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #32 December 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteI know this shouldn’t need to be said, but, I'm going to say it anyway. Not all canopies react the same way to inputs! Because this works for Twardo's larger canopy does not mean it'll work for yours. I'm about due for a repack anyways.......what could go wrong? I get the camera slot. Go for it!! Video to follow...Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #33 December 13, 2011 QuoteQuoteThe lesson is to track like hell and this should serve as a wake up to those that don't think that small HP canopies require better skills in ALL aspects, not just landing. Good point. I've gotten into the habit of doing a traffic scan while my canopy snivels. Looking at the canopy isn't going to help anything or effect the opening, but looking around might certainly help out if you pick up on a traffic problem, you'll be ready to manuver as soon as the canopy becomes 'controlable'. The idea is that the skydive doesn't end when you track off. You might think you're alone, but there are still other jumpers up there with you, and you're not alone. Along the same lines, once open, I've gotten into the habit of scanning up and down the jumprun for the groups that exited before and after me. I'm looking to see that they are open, and not flying in my direction. You know the 'line' jumprun follows, and you should be able to spot those groups with no problem before beginning to fly your canopy along jump run. Along those lines, an area of specific concern is in the last RW group and the first freefly group to exit on a pass. In that case, the later exiting freefly group will pass the RW group in freefall and open before them. It's important for both groups to be aware of the differences, and mindful of them. The freeflyers need to hold back from flying back down the jumprun once they are open, or they risk flying right under the still-freefalling RW group. +1. Sounds almost exactly like my standard procedures.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #34 December 13, 2011 Quote so setting the brakes deeper does not reduce the closing speed as you put it? If you are referring to setting the brakes deeper when the brakes are set for opening, that wouldn't be a good idea. The manufacturers test their designs extensively and put the brake settings where they are for a reason. Changing that setting could lead to extremely hard openings & even a catastrophic failure of lines and/or fabric, failure to open and all, or anything in between. We used to jack around a bit with the older F-111 canopies doing stuff like changing brake settings and modifying sliders to change opening characteristics (cutting holes in the center of the slider to speed up openings on old worn out canopies was a favorite), but making changes would not be advisable on today's higher performance designs and zero-P fabrics. The results could be devastating and I doubt you would get a dime back from the manufacturer when they learned that you did your own mods.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #35 December 15, 2011 Not to you Chuck. When you train for nationals, you sometimes take shit deeper than you should. Result: shorter track. I have the same video, sans collision, from a training jump. Just a highlight reel clip now. Pretty sure I was high. haha. "That's what we have here. Failure to communicate." Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #36 December 21, 2011 I like the painfully long pause after landing to try and take in what just happened. Had a few of those moments myself.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aarco 0 #37 December 22, 2011 some years back I got to lazy after filming an aff jump - I and the aff guys working in Elsinore at the time -ran up the wall at one point guarding our cool guy egos- I swallowed the I am humble pill with the issue- In one solid mind frame working any issue - there are no egos when it comes to saftey - I had a center point - stick to the plan - don't get to creative and crazy - I was always easy at working with husband and wife work teams - it felt like family thing - -being standerd and performable is sky skills 101 - track stait track hard open safe -stay aware- so I looked at my health and my tracking skill- At the end of the month I was better at tracking - Having something never beats doing (>|<) Iam building things - Iam working on my mind- I am going to change this world - its what I came here 4- - - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
