Really scare - How to react?

[mazevedo 0]

This situation really scared me...
I think this could be posted on Safety forum, but I want to know the opinion in the cameramen view.
The jump was: Friend’s birthday (tube hanger – I don’t know if this is the right word) - tube jump - 5-way “sit fly”. I was the camera. The jump was ok until break-off at 5.000’ (except me and the tube hanger). Both of us went on our belly, he released the tube and I went on my back to film he pull. I saw a shadow passing just 5’ to 10’ besides me. One of the guy that was supposed to track away, just pulled under us. The tube hanger passed through the canopy while on free-fall. At this time, my “pro-ditter“rang 3.500’. I have to say that I was few seconds paralyzed when I saw my friend going into the canopy and I was afraid to pull under that mess. I decided to pull later and there was nothing I could do, just to pray about anybody going into my canopy, too. As my Neptune, my canopy was opened at 1.400’.
I really thought my friend died. I thought he was wrapped by the canopy or shocked with the other guy. I just realized everybody was ok when I counted the canopies in the air and saw they were flying them.
The guy that pulled under us, didn’t realized what happened until he landed his reserve (his main was completely damaged). He thought it was a terminal malfunction.
My friend just cut his forehead. He was wrapped on his birthday and received three stitches as birthday gift.
Everything was briefed - break-off altitude, going on our belly, releasing the tube, pull, etc-Except one guy tracking like a boomerang.
I know it was a miracle everybody is alive and I really learned some points.
1 - I will never film a pull (except tandem and AFF) again.
2 - I will never jump with people I don’t know very well (the guy that made the mess, was the only one that I didn´t knew. The other guys knew him and said he was +500).
3 - 5-way “free fly” is a big-way. I will break-off at 5.000’ always… I always do that, but this time.. I didn’t… Look what happened.
4 - I will never jump with anybody that doesn´t use an audible altimeter. The guy that made the mess wasn’t with one.
How do you react to something like that? As a beginner, I reacted by instincts. I could made everything worst for the roll group or for me, I don’t know. Few feet more, I could end up with two canopies over my head and just 1.000’ to deal with it. Few feet less I could end up with another jumper inside my canopy. It was purely luck, I know. But what you experienced cameraman would do?
BS
PS: Sorry for the bad English
PS2: The camera was from the tube hanger. I returned to him before he went to the hospital look at his injure.

edited: english issue...

[jtval 0]

LOTS of issues on the jump you describe.
I don't understand the part where you said you were afriad to pul)deploy) under them. Why didn't you just track? You said you were still at 3500 and If I had the choice to track until 2500 and pull or stay under them I would definitely track.

One thing that you must always do is know where your dive buddies are. I have seen a few people track in circles or not track at all when I am in video slot.(vid takes center) the thing I do is pull while everyone breaks off.That gives you vertical AND horizontal separation.

If I have never jumped with that person before I would plan one jump per load, not two.
the 5way stay together for the whole jump. set ONE break off altitude and break off.

I don't plan a jump like you planned with strangers.NEVER!


When there is a newbies on the jump I gol over the dive plan with them and I bring up situations to see if they would do the right thing...and I educate them if need be.


I.E.
ME: What if we all exit the plane and you leave 3 seconds too late and can't get down to us? what do you do?

the answer should be.
Keep my eyes on the formation and track away (perpendicular to the jump run) at break off altitude or when the group breaks and be prepared to open high if someone flies below you.

You may have heard the
"plan the dive, dive the plan" quote but let's get real, sometimes that doesn't always work. So I "Plan the dive,dive the plan ,and be prepared if shit hits the fan"





I did a three way night jump with two people who were relatively new and very new to night jumps.
the plan was to exit in a round and stay there until break off. BUT if shit hit the fan Jumper 1 would track over to the golf course. jumper two would track over to the landing area and I would track over to the hanger and we would all stay there until pull time. The jump went well and at break off we all went to our assigned spots and opened without incident.

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[mazevedo 0]

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I don't understand the part where you said you were afriad to pul)deploy) under them. Why didn't you just track? You said you were still at 3500 and If I had the choice to track until 2500 and pull or stay under them I would definitely track.

As I said, I freezed when I saw one guy going through the other guy canopy. I was completely surprised and shoked about that. It took few seconds, but the time was running... The break off altitude was 5.000' and I saw everybody tracking away, except the guy I was going to film (as briefed). I never expect that one jumper with more than 500ish didn't know how to track (my mistake, as I didn't knew him very well).

It was one jump on that load (Cena 182 - just five jumpers on the load).

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"plan the dive, dive the plan" quote but let's get real, sometimes that doesn't always work. So I "Plan the dive,dive the plan ,and be prepared if shit hits the fan"

completely agree

I learned a lot with that jump. Now I know, that really stupid thing can happens... If you don't think that an impossible thing could happen, it does...

[jtval 0]

OK. Makes sense. Glad everything worked out.

Did you talk to the guy after wards and find out what he was doing?

I woun\ldn't be screamign and shouting at him but I would have to be sure he knew how close to death everyone was.

It's crazy to think that after his canopy was hit that he thought it was a malfunction. (Technically it was but humans don't always fall through my canopy)

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[PharmerPhil 0]

I hate being the one to say this (because this always seems to come up on this forum), but is your profile up to date? You described a very complicated dive, with lots of variables, and with strangers. I'm not opposed to any one issue, but combining all these issues with your stated jump numbers is putting yourself and others in danger.

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As a beginner, I reacted by instincts. I could made everything worst for the roll group or for me, I don’t know.

I personally think your jump numbers would indicate that you start videoing very slowly and with less complicated, and hopefully safer skydives. Videoing simpler skydives (2-4 ways, no extra objects in freefall, people you know, complete dirt dives, pulling at break-off, etc.) is a much safer way to hone your skills before attempting a skydive like you describe here...IMHO.

[champu 1]

A valid point for sure.

However, I think this could have come up for someone with 400 jumps or 800 jumps or even 1000s of jumps. The OP has done a good job evaluating what happened and why, which leads me to believe that his lack of jump experience was at most a minor factor. Kudos to him for that.

The take-away here is to really be careful when counting the "factors" on any skydive you go on. Not all are applicable here, but new people, objects, cameras, boogie environments, new aircraft, number of people on the jump, new dropzone, type of jump, partying the night before, etc.

These are the kinds of things people are talking about when they say "complacency kills."

[Fast 0]

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A valid point for sure.

However, I think this could have come up for someone with 400 jumps or 800 jumps or even 1000s of jumps. The OP has done a good job evaluating what happened and why, which leads me to believe that his lack of jump experience was at most a minor factor. Kudos to him for that.

The take-away here is to really be careful when counting the "factors" on any skydive you go on. Not all are applicable here, but new people, objects, cameras, boogie environments, new aircraft, number of people on the jump, new dropzone, type of jump, partying the night before, etc.

These are the kinds of things people are talking about when they say "complacency kills."

I think the bigger issue is taking people who are kinda sketchy on jumps. I don't like to do stuff that is complicated if I don't have a good idea of the skill level of the other people on the skydive. Not to say I haven't made any mistakes, but, be weary of who you jump with always.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[davelepka 4]

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I think this could have come up for someone with 400 jumps or 800 jumps or even 1000s of jumps.

Or maybe not. When doing outside video, the idea is to stay outside, and look in. You can't let anyone get behind you, or this sort of thing can happen.

Is there a jumper out of the formation? Back up, and keep everyone in frame. If a jumper goes out my sliding past you, move to the other side, and keep them in frame. The idea is to keep an eye on everyone, at all times.

Want to film the base pulling? Stay outside until you see everyone tracking away, then move to the middle, and film the base.

Anytime you let someone get outside of your field of view, you're just a sitting duck. Watch your back out there, because nobody will do it for you.