Question about suit/ weights

[Ronaldo 0]

Hi,
I’m trying to start shooting videos (nothing professional at this point) but I have a fall rate issue. Although I’m a fairly big guy (6’2” 180lbs) I tend to float a lot (either free flying or belly flying). As a test I added some wings to a freefly suit I don’t use anymore (I usually jump with ff pants due to the slow fall rate) and tested this weekend trying to video a solo jumper. I think the wing worked very well because even flying with my arms closed (elbows down) I was not able to keep up speed with him. Unfortunately the plane had an engine problem and I wasn’t able to continue jumping and evaluating the options (adding weights and/or changing suits).
Question is: having a slow fall rate, should I abandon the wings and just use a regular suit or pants (and possibly light weights)? Wouldn’t it be possible to use a winged suit with a larger amount of weight? As far as I understand, using wings and heavier weights would give me a much wider range of variation and also a quicker response during free fall. Is there any problem with this configuration? Would it limit my skills by giving me a false sense of easily adjusting the speed with just my arms?
Just to add some data, my average free fall speed with arms closed and arched at that jump was around 112mph according to the Pro-Track (SAS mode). I have also attached a picture of my ff suit after sewing the wings. Although the wings don’t look big I sewed them at the back of the arm which helps create a pocket that increases drag considerably.
Safe skies

Ronaldo

Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

[freefalle 0]

If you don't NEED wings to slow you down, which it sounds like you don't, don't use them. Someone told me along time ago when I first started flying camera two things, learn to fly camera without the wings first. learn to fly your body and then add wings. Some people who start flying camera the same time they add wings to the situation, will become dependent on the wings and "hang" on them instead of using them to just slow down a but. I know a lot of really good camera flyers who don't use wings.

If you don't need them don't use them. It sounds to me like you have to overcome the issue of floating away from what you are filming not sinking out under it. Either way enjoy yourself and be safe.

[Ronaldo 0]

Thanks, that’s the kind of advice I was looking for. I'll start with no wings and work as hard as I can to develop my skills. If I decide to add wings (and weights) in the future I will already have learned the basics. I understand that adding wings and weights right now would be like cheating at myself throughout the learning curve.
Thanks again
Blue skies

Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

[faulknerwn 36]

Yeah - I've wondered that myself. I've been told both that I need wings and that I don't. But I've NEVER had an issue with going slow, and filming our faster tandem masters, I wear a tight RW suit with weights! Couldn't figure out why some people swore I should have wings...

[ltdiver 3]

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Yeah - I've wondered that myself. I've been told both that I need wings and that I don't. But I've NEVER had an issue with going slow, and filming our faster tandem masters, I wear a tight RW suit with weights! Couldn't figure out why some people swore I should have wings...

Just a guess here, but isn't the standard garb for a CReW Dog (cameraflyer or formation flyer) just jeans and a sweatshirt?

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[PharmerPhil 0]

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Although I’m a fairly big guy...I tend to float a lot

I gotta disagree with the previous respondents. Unless I'm missing something, it sounds like you are falling too slow to start with (even while belly flying). In this case the last thing you need is a freefly suit. I am a big believer in wing suits for camera. Not to slow you down, but to give you more range to an already optimally fitting (and falling) suit. But if you are using a freefly suit, and you are falling to slow, you need to speed up your medium fall rate. Instead of adding wings to an already slow suit, I would scrap the ff suit, get a real camera suit (with wings) and learn how to fly a camera suit. BTW, they fly differently than a regular suit (ff or rw). Typically, I fly on the wings (slightly knees down,..I think), and use legs and hands for additional control.

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I think the wing worked very well because even flying with my arms closed (elbows down) I was not able to keep up speed with him

This doesn't make sense. If you are flying with your arms closed, you are no longer using your wings (i.e. they aren't doing anything). You should be shooting (no pun intended) for a freefall speed that is ideal with medium wings. Then, more wing slows you down, and less wing (elbows in, arms closed) speeds you up.

It is late, but that's my too sense.

[BMFin 0]

Im no camera hero, but the little experience I have from filming tandems has taught me how much you benefit from freeflying skills while filming tandems.

If you can freefly you can always go faster and you already have a really big range of speed availeable.

Then again if you have no freeflying skills, wings (and weight) might give you some more range of speed, but not as much.

[Ronaldo 0]

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This doesn't make sense. If you are flying with your arms closed, you are no longer using your wings (i.e. they aren't doing anything).

I understand your confusion; the thing is that I was able to feel the wings inflated a bit probably due to the elbows being down instead of being at the side of my torso. Anyway, I’ll start with a RW suit and light weights to see how it works. Then I’ll try to get a camera suit as you suggested to see if it helps.
Thanks!

Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

[Ronaldo 0]

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Im no camera hero, but the little experience I have from filming tandems has taught me how much you benefit from freeflying skills while filming tandems.

Definitely, but my freeflying skills are not that good. I could video a tandem freeflying because it is just a matter of adjusting fall rates which I could do backflying but it might not work as well with an AFF or solo jump where the student is sliding fast. I still can’t slide freeflying as fast as I can on my belly with a RW suit.
Blue skies

Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

[dragon2 0]

You don't fly wings to hang in, at least not usually (well maybe with a very lightweight tandem passenger). The wings are there if you need them for safety reasons. You can get much closer to the team, on the edge of the burble, and stay there with wings. If/when you fall in, THEN you really need them.

I really don't like seeing people film without wings, I've seen too many close calls on exit, right after exit and burble troubles even from experienced fliers. Also some plain bad video from not daring/being able to get any closer. I don't think it is really discouraged at our DZ and it may also not have everything to do with the lack of wings, but like I said, I don't like it at all.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[draiger 0]

I agree 100%, I am on the ground right now recovering from a dislocated shoulder because of a miss- timed exit. It was a ten way with 3 people outside with me. I did not have wings on that jump and I will never film a bigger jump without them again.
Freefalle I 'm glad I took you advise a few years ago, It made me understand when I truly need them and why.

[freefalle 0]

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I agree 100%, I am on the ground right now recovering from a dislocated shoulder because of a miss- timed exit. It was a ten way with 3 people outside with me. I did not have wings on that jump and I will never film a bigger jump without them again.
Freefalle I 'm glad I took you advise a few years ago, It made me understand when I truly need them and why.

heal well my friend, I'm glad you are okay. I'll see you in Sept.

[steveorino 7]

If you want to sell the suit -- PM me.

steveOrino