Oh no, another "what camera?" question...

[AS1 0]

I'm considering getting a camera in the next few months. Sony seems to be the consensus but which one?

I know this question gets asked all the time but I've tried searching the forums and have been paying attention to new posts for a while. The more I read the more confusing it gets. Specs seem to change fast and the latest greatest develops problems so historical stuff is not that helpful. Thanks if you are still reading.

Is there a camera out there I can:-

1. Buy new.
2. Side mount.
3. Use for recording stuff for my own amusement while I'm learning.
4. Still be good enough to use if I get more serious about camera work?
5. Is there any technology coming up in the next few months it would be worth waiting for?

Thanks again.

[newshooter12 0]

Just save your money and put it towards jumping.

Seriously. It's not a blow you off answer. Most people will have their camera sitting on a shelf for 99% of the time anyway.

When I bought my mini-dv cam I was thinking like you.... have a camera when i need it, etc. However the next season one of my instructors bought a better camera for about half of what I spent on mine. Plus batteries are harder to come by for late model cameras the older they get.

When you're ready to fly camera:
-buy what works for you and your helmet
-set it up right the first time (upgrading cameras is nearly always more expensive than getting it right the first time)

And hopefully the prices will be lower with a much better product out there when you're ready.

If you're still hell bent on buying a camera look for a used one because you're opinion of what you want will probably change before you're ready to set up a helmet for it.

Matt

[AS1 0]

I appreciate the answer and agree with you but I need one relatively soon for non skydiving reasons (children) and there doesn't seem to be much point in buying one that's unsuitable.

[mr2mk1g 10]

You'll have a job finding a side mount bought new.

Sony are moving to Mini-DVD and hard drive cameras. Neither work as well as mini-dv in the skydiving environ. Plus they appear to be abandoning LANC ports.

[DSE 3]

Sony is only "abandoning" LANC ports in cheaper consumer models.

All camcorder manufacturers are moving away from tape. Tape is effectively dead, everyone wants flash, DVD, or HDD-based cams if they're using small sizes, and tape is on the wane in the high-end market as well. It's a dying commodity, and will be gone (in the broad sense) in 3-5 years.

If you're looking for a camera right now, then you'll likely want HD, and you'll likely want small profile if it's to be used for both skydiving and family events.
If you can wait for 2 months, the Sony CX7 is the next best great thing, and if you need one right now, I'd look at the HC5/7. They use tape, but personally, I'm not a monster fan of AVCHD. It's acceptable, but a serious pain to edit *right now* but that'll change in a few months as faster procs come on line.

[dragon2 0]

Quote

Is there a camera out there I can:-

1. Buy new.
2. Side mount.

Nope. Not safely.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[skydance1954 0]

If your profile is accurate, then I would strongly discourage you from flying a camera at this time. It's not something you can mount on your helmet and forget about. It requires a significant increase in overhead/mental awareness/risk/flying skills.

While you might accept the risk factor and overhead, I can assure you that unless you're a prodigy, the mental awareness and flying skills are not to the level that is needed to safely fly a camera, or get useful shots.

This is not meant as an insult or a brush off. Many people mount cameras on their helmets today far earlier than is wise. Much the same as people downsize their canopies sooner than they should.

Buy the camera for personal reasons if you must, but for skydiving - continue to hone your skills. You need to be able to perform complex manoevers without thought to be able to get the shots that count. You also need to be aware of where people are and what they are doing while at the same time, not moving your head. These two very important skills are not well developed in most skydivers until they have several hundred jumps under their belts.

Mike Ashley
D-18460
Canadian A-666

[AS1 0]

Maybe I didn't explain this properly,

I need a camera for family reasons soon and I want to buy one that I can jump with when appropriate.

I don't want to shell out a load of money on a camera and find in six months or a year that I can't jump with it. I've read the very valid reasons why I shouldn't jump one early. In the UK you need a C licence and the approval of the DZs CCI so there is no chance I will jump one with 130 jumps or so.

So back to the point,
If there are no safe side mounts out there new I'll have to get a used one. The Sony PC series seems to have a very confusing model line up.

Could someone rate them in order of preference?

ie is a PC1000 better or worse than a PC350 or PC109 or whatever.

I know this might be asking a bit much but at least I'll have a shortlist for ebay.

Many thanks to everyone so far, Its really good to have such a wealth of information / experience out there.

[newshooter12 0]

The PC 350 has a larger sensor and some features that are very handy. The PC109 is effectively a scaled down version of it... though still a good camera.

The PC 1000 is the one my instructor got for a whole lot less than i picked up my PC350 for. The only downfall i see of the PC 1000 is the internal batteries and lack of external focus control or mic input.

Matt

[pilotdave 0]

Quote

The only downfall i see of the PC 1000 is the internal batteries and lack of external focus control or mic input.

The PC1000 does have an external focus control (little scroll wheel near the lens). I set the focus, then change the function of that wheel to white balance in case I move it by accident. Adjusting the white balance doesn't ruin the video like accidentally adjusting the focus. I actually can't see any difference on the camera's screen when I move the white balance control all the way from one extreme to the other. It doesn't give much control. You change the function of the wheel just by pushing it and holding it... a menu pops up to change it's current function.

The internal battery is no prob either... they make a high capacity battery the same size as the standard battery. Lasts nearly 3 hours and doesn't stick out of the camera.

No mic input, but I've never seen anyone use a mic for a skydiving video.
Dave

[velocityphoto 0]

I'd have several pc1000's if they had a mic input .
i use it on every jump . Sennheiser rocks! :)

A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................

[tqsmile 0]

Get yourself a Sony HC 21,can do family stuff well and airwork.Its cheap and works well,You get all the connections for dv,camlight etc.I have been using one for handcam for months,they are light easy to use.Later on depending what you wanna do(Norman Kent stuff) then look for that kinda cam,HD etc expensive.HC21 good all rounder.Pc 101 also good if you can get one but are a little heavier.

TQ
I am me and you are you, so deal with it!!!
www.skydivepe.com

[mr2mk1g 10]

Well we might not be getting all the models over here then. I dropped by a Sony shop last night and was told they don't have LANC ports on any of their current line (not that I can actually trust anything I'm actually told by a store pleb... but he did at least look up my question on his computer terminal ).

Last week when asking elsewhere I got quite a snotty response that LANC was "old technology" and that "nobody wanted LANC ports anymore". Apparently you can now use new-fangled computer software to edit to the very frame so LANC ports were now pointless. I nodded and smiled and left the shop.

Are people still shying away from hard drive based cameras because of the old altitude issues? I'm starting to think that we are really going to be in a shitty position in 2-3 years time when the last of the tape based cameras leave the shelves and we're left with either DVD or HDD, which so far at least I've only heard really negative things about for skydiving use.

[Zee 0]

There are already solid state "hard drives" that hold hundreds of Gb - A few years from now (if even that long) video cameras will be available that won't have the altitude issues of current models.

Action©Sports

[mr2mk1g 10]

OK, so went to a different Sony shop today and some HDD cameras do hace a "remote" port. Teach me to ever rely on something a shop assistant tells me... especially when their initial response is "LANC port?"

Pity the Sony website doesn't appear to want to talk about their existence, even on old models I know came with them.

[DSE 3]

Quote

Well we might not be getting all the models over here then. I dropped by a Sony shop last night and was told they don't have LANC ports on any of their current line (not that I can actually trust anything I'm actually told by a store pleb... but he did at least look up my question on his computer terminal ).

Last week when asking elsewhere I got quite a snotty response that LANC was "old technology" and that "nobody wanted LANC ports anymore". Apparently you can now use new-fangled computer software to edit to the very frame so LANC ports were now pointless. I nodded and smiled and left the shop.

Are people still shying away from hard drive based cameras because of the old altitude issues? I'm starting to think that we are really going to be in a shitty position in 2-3 years time when the last of the tape based cameras leave the shelves and we're left with either DVD or HDD, which so far at least I've only heard really negative things about for skydiving use.

It's not an "old altitude question" but rather a question of "how long til altitude causes the drive to fail?" I regularly jump a microdrive, have perhaps 150 jumps, and know it's going to die soon (We exit at around 17,000 MSL). It's air pressure, and so far as I know, air pressure at altitude hasn't gotten any greater in the past couple of years.
If you're going to the Sony store, you'll never see one of their professional products, all of which have LANC. Most of the consumer products do still but LANC (Local Application Control Bus) is heavily used in photography and videography, and is currently the only way to sync multiple low-cost cameras together for things like stereophotography, pan head/zoom/focus control, etc. Consumers don't need that stuff. The consumer cams have never carried LANC across the board, only the better/higher end products. Sad the moron at the store told you the LANC had anything to do with frame accurate editing. Good that you knew he was a moron.

[spanky39154 0]

just as a side thought, cannon have brought out a new mini-dv high def upright camcorder, (Not cradle based and with lanc port etc).
Not looked into it too much but as sony are getting away from side mount compatable cameras this could soon become the popular option! looking for a second camcorder as back up incase my pc105 fails on me!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large Groups!!

[PhreeZone 15]

The HV-10? its worthless for freefall. Its been discussed a few times on here.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[mr2mk1g 10]

That's indeed what I meant by "old altitude question" – how long till the low atmospheric pressure caused the drive to fail.

Obviously pressure hasn't changed... but last I heard there were a couple of promising developments – such as a sealed hard drive that had been developed. I was just wondering if anyone had any updates and if technology had gotten anywhere closer to solving the "old altitude question".

[JohnnyZ 0]

Why are you so opposed to a top mount? I just got a brand new HC5 on E-Bay for $703 delivered (They're $1099 at all of the big electronics stores). 1080I video on mini DV tape and 4.0 megapixil stills.... And its small and lightweight.
In my opinion, top mounting a camera the size of an HC5 is safer than side mounting a PC1000 in regards to snagging a riser or other potential what-ifs.

[AS1 0]

Fair enough.

Just searched the forums for "top or side mount" and the consensus seem to be side mount for casual use and top for pros.

I guess this is starting to change now sony don't make side mountable cameras.

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

Just searched the forums for "top or side mount" and the consensus seem to be side mount for casual use and top for pros.

I think this is a case where the casual jumper really should assume that the pro's know what they're doing!

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[spanky39154 0]

just courious not looked into the HV-10, but why not any good for jumping??

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large Groups!!

[pilotdave 0]

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=4916 for an example of what freefall footage from the HV-10 looks like.

Dave

[AS1 0]

Still looking...
An 18month old pc1000 just went for £620 sterling on ebay. Are they really worth that much?