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DSE

Front float?

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I feel stupid for needing to ask, but at our DZ where we have a King 90, no one takes camera slot at front float. I want to learn to shoot an exit from this position and keep the subject framed, but no one here can give me good info. DZO is a bit concerned, because I'm in front of tandem vs behind. I want to learn the technique for shots other than tandems, but tandems are the best practice I'm gonna get.

DZO is concerned because twice in the past year, sit trains have hit the flap on the wing, denting/damaging the wing. The second hit required replacement, and grounded the aircraft for a week.

I haven't attempted to fly front float for a camera slot, so any/all suggestions advice would be appreciated.

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Is there an exterior floater handle.. which extends far enough forward???

as long as you are secure out there and in good eye contact with the TM and on the same page as far as the exit keys are concerned,,,,,,,if you kick OUT aggressively as you all leave, that should help limit the likelihood of getting into each other. That could put you right even with the door as THEY leave, rather than 10 feet below them, as could be the case from rear float.

all depends on how solid you can be AT the FF position.

Good thinking,, trying to get a different and unique shot, as compared to the standard, 'lead THEM off the plane" angle which is common with R Float.
have fun, Be safe.

j t

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DSE, I don't know if your King Air has a large step outside it, however; here is another method.

In the attached shots I am rear float, another camera person is hanging from the step. You can look at the shots and see the large step in one of the shots, me leaving early and catching the hanger with the TM and King Air. Front on any King Air is a challenge!! Good luck and stay safe!!!

Arvel
BSBD...........Its all about Respect,

USPA#-7062, FB-2197, Outlaw 499

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Our step is quite similar, it has two levels which allows us to get a little lower on the bottom step.
part of my hope is to learn to aggressively track down, keeping the subject in my sight while catching the earth in the background to show distance, rather than aggressively tracking "up" as they exit.
I can get very secure in the front float position, my only worries are figuring out the timing so that I'm not exiting right on top of the subject, and so that I'm not dropping on the flap. I guess I should probably pay for a couple non-student tandems to at least get an idea of what I'm dealing with while minimizing risk.
Thank you, for the answers/suggestions.

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Dude, the two best camera fliers i personally know are ZEE, (who already posted to your thread) and IMGR2 I have seen both of them fly the front float on tandems no grips, and do it GOOD:D

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

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Dude, the two best camera fliers i personally know are ZEE, (who already posted to your thread) and IMGR2 I have seen both of them fly the front float on tandems no grips, and do it GOOD:D



that's great, yet Zee's post doesn't offer anything on the "how." I'm not expecting grips on the tandem; that's pretty well beyond the DZ rules and not helpful to my end goals anyway.

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That's a pretty tricky exit on a King Air considering that the wing is beneath you on exit. I'd be concerned about hitting the flap too....



Yeah. I have done some "in front" of the tandem pair exits on our PAC but I am not willing to risk the plane or my cameras on anything agressive. I would be quite pissed if I sheered my camera off on the wing of the plane. I think the pictures look better but it isn't worth the risk on a low wing plane. Works great on an otter or caravan though.
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

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Douglas,

I have probably 1000+ tandem videos off a King Air.. and this is what I do.. I am rear float, but I pull myself low and into the door.. right in the students face..
On exit.. I launch forward and onto my back.. and the exit looks "almost" as cool as leaving from front float.. and you are always out of the way of the tandem....

From front float, I would think you just have to leave earlier than from rear..

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On exit.. I launch forward and onto my back.. and the exit looks "almost" as cool as leaving from front float.. and you are always out of the way of the tandem....



launch forward? do you mean launch outward to the left? a half barrel roll off to the left.

douglas,
perfect the rear poised exit from this king.....if you are a big guy, you tend to block the TM from climbing completely out. king 90 exits are difficult for the TM already, especially big guys. a tandem video guy needs to be transparent and not interfere with the TMs already tough task at hand. with tandems "agressive tracking" could turn to corking, quickly, and we all know thats not good.
I am not sure if your asking for technique in flying down the hill on your back? or leaving a difficult aircraft from the front float position?
personally I wouldn't leave the king from the front. I agree with vdschoor. leave from the rear and roll on your back. sliding down the hill on your back might take some practice. working with the same TM constantly will help with your timing for exit. every TM is different and exit counts vary.
the photos are not from a king air, they are shots of a front float exit from a caravan.
Stay Safe,
jimoke
The ground always, remembers where you are!

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Doug,
It works great from the OTTER, but as others said already it really makes no sense from the King Air, and it could be quiet dengerous. jimoke and vdschoor explained the best options.
Unfurtunately it doesn't work from all air craft...
My best advise is try to lear front float from upper wing planes like Caravan or OTTER.
Good luck and stay safe!
-Laszlo-

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Laszlo, I wish you'd quit posting those images. My exwife makes me feel inadequate enough without you doing it too.:D

yeah, I've kinda resigned that the King isn't the best place to learn this technique. In an Otter, how does your timing differ from the rear float timing?

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I wish I know that much about video production (and technology) as you do...
The timing depends on lot of things. If the tandem is doing poised exit I leave a hair late in a sit position and stay front of them but then I can't get the plane in the back-ground. In the other hand with tandems normally a leave at the same time as the pair leaves the plane and turn with them as they coming down on the hill. If they light I roll back to my belly so I don't sink out with my fat ass when the drouge comes out. If the tandem is heavier or I know the instructor holds onto the drouge for a few seconds (5 or more...) then I stay in the sit until the drouge. My wing desing doesn't "catch" enough air to stay slow enough with the tandem while I sit flying.(but at least I can stay when some crazy ones do 20-25 droug delay!)
Safety wise (deffinetly when you learning!!!) better to be a bit early. It's always safer to be lower than the tandem because that way you can't hit the drouge, pulus the instructor can see you too so he won't throw the drouge into your face either. Step by step and jump by jump you can make those exits tighter and tighter. It will take some practice.
Stay safe!
-Laszlo-

in this pic. is actually me front floating with the tandem

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I am rear float, but I pull myself low and into the door.. right in the students face..
On exit.. I launch forward and onto my back.. and the exit looks "almost" as cool as leaving from front float.. and you are always out of the way of the tandem....

From front float, I would think you just have to leave earlier than from rear..



I would have to agree with Iwan. If you lauch off of the K/A just before the tandem leaves you get a great shot.
I put my right foot on the side of the plane just below the window and lauch out just before they exit. takes some getting used to, but one you get it its fun and the shots look good.

Dave
LifeshouldNOTbeajourneytothegravewithawellpreservedbody,buttskidinsideways,cigarinone hand,martiniintheother,bodythoroughlyused upandscreaming:"WOO HOO!! What a ride!!!"

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I've filmed 99% of my tandems from a Porter and on most of the exits i hang under the strut and exit on my back with the tandem pair.

That being said, for the few tandems that i've filmed out of a King Air that doesn't have a step, i place one foot in either corner of the door and one hand on either vertical edge so i'm basically hanging out the plane. The TI is then free to get his student into the door and i get a nice face shot. I then lead them out and fly the exit on my back.

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Dude, the two best camera fliers i personally know are ZEE, (who already posted to your thread) and IMGR2 I have seen both of them fly the front float on tandems no grips, and do it GOOD:D



that's great, yet Zee's post doesn't offer anything on the "how." I'm not expecting grips on the tandem; that's pretty well beyond the DZ rules and not helpful to my end goals anyway.



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that's great, yet Zee's post doesn't offer anything on the "how." I'm not expecting grips on the tandem; that's pretty well beyond the DZ rules and not helpful to my end goals anyway.



I'd be more than happy to help DSE, but in this case, I just don't think it's really worth the risk.

I've done it from Otters and Caravans - IMGR2 still puts my front float exits to shame - but to be quite honest, the thought never even crossed my mind to try it from a King Air. I had a hard enough time getting out the door on our old one (may she rest in pieces) :D

I like Arvel's idea of getting down on the step like that - pretty much eliminates the bulk of the risk. And it gives you a very cool angle. Then again, there is NFW I could get my big ass down there and hold on in that prop blast.

Pushing off hard eliminates a lot of the risk too but it also takes you out of the angle you're trying to achieve.

It should be interesting to see what people come up with though.

And thank you for the compliment, Brains.....

Even found a little IMGR2 front float aciton for ya :)






Action©Sports

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