8mp vs 10mp Are pixels that important?

[KennyP 0]

Hi Guy and Gals,
I'm back and cross-eyed from reading up on cameras. My question is; if I'm not going to be blowing up anything more than... say 8x10... Is there a huge difference between a 8mp and a 10 mp camera? Would a canon 30d be better than the XTi? Or are the extra 2 meg more important. If we're talking D80 vs D40 will the extra 2 meg justify 2x the cost for skydiving photos?

TIA Ken

[LukeH 0]

The short answer is no. Broadly speaking, the difference between 8MP and 10MP is irrelevant. If you enlarge a picture a lot or crop heavily you may see a difference.

I think lens glass and sensor size are much more important for picture quality. Camera producers are increasing MPs just to out do/keep up with each other.

BTW Canon 30d is 8.2MP and Canon XTi is 10.1MP
The XTi is cheaper, smaller and lighter too. They are from different Canon ranges.

[KennyP 0]

Hey Luke,

That's kind of what I was getting at. I'm new to dslr's and the 30d isn't that much more yet it seems like a better built, more professional camera. The d40 is 100s less than the D80 yet outside of the pixels, some people think its a better camera.

[howardwhite 4]

Interesting article at http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9507E1DD113FF93BA35751C0A9619C8B63
Also much more at the blog he references in the article.

HW

[LukeH 0]

The 30D is a nice camera for sure.

Compared to the XTi the shutter is rated for more cycles, the body is magnesium rather than plastic and I prefer the way the controls are laid out.

The larger size and heavier weight on your head may be worth it if you are going to use it on the ground a lot. If it's mostly for jumping I'd prefer the smaller and lighter camera.

The 30d is a bit dated (this is probably why it's not much more than the XTi), it was a fairly minor update to the 20d which it replaced. I'd expect it to be replaced with a 40d around Sept. The 40d may or may not have some nice new features you would like, but regardless the price of the 30d will drop.

You can really torment yourself trying to choose a camera but it gets even worse when you try to choose glass for it!

I have a XT with Canon 10-22mm. Will probably buy a full frame (5d or one of it's replacements) for using on the ground some day.

At the end of the day, all 4 cameras you have mentioned will probably serve you very well. Just prioritise things like Make, Lenses and Acc. available, Cost, Weight, Size etc. and hopefully one will stand out.

[plutoniumsalmon 0]

Quote

The short answer is no. Broadly speaking, the difference between 8MP and 10MP is irrelevant. If you enlarge a picture a lot or crop heavily you may see a difference.

You may also see a difference with manipulation. more pixels means more information ie more stuff to fuck with in photoshop or whatever.

I would recomend the rebel. I like the 5d but in your situation a rebel would be just fine it's rather cheap, portable, and pretty well built

Pointy birds
Oh pointy pointy
Anoint my head
Anointy nointy

[dragon2 0]

Don't buy a D40! For Nikon, D70s, D80 and D200 have a wired remote.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Laszloimage 0]

I would get either the XT or the XTi. The 30D can't give you better picture quality but lot heavier! The 30D just a bit faster. If you want to carry that kind of weight on your head then get a 5D.
Also for the price of the 30D body only you can buy an XT (also 8MP) with a nice lens (Canon or Sigma 15mm for example).
I only recommend a Nikon DSLR if you have Nikon lenses already. But remember Canon leads in DSLR technologie... for example they use CMOS sensors vs. Nikon's CCD. Canon managed to have three different pro models with full frame (36x24mm)sensors. How about Nikon?
Also if you want to use your camera for jumping the external shutter release is a bitch on any Nikon (even the ones with the outlet). While you can just plug a ready to go bite, blow, and etc. switch into your Canon whith out any extra wireing.
-Laszlo- www.laszloimage.com

[dragon2 0]

Quote

I would get either the XT or the XTi. The 30D can't give you better picture quality but lot heavier! The 30D just a bit faster. If you want to carry that kind of weight on your head then get a 5D.
Also for the price of the 30D body only you can buy an XT (also 8MP) with a nice lens (Canon or Sigma 15mm for example).
I only recommend a Nikon DSLR if you have Nikon lenses already. But remember Canon leads in DSLR technologie... for example they use CMOS sensors vs. Nikon's CCD. Canon managed to have three different pro models with full frame (36x24mm)sensors. How about Nikon?
Also if you want to use your camera for jumping the external shutter release is a bitch on any Nikon (even the ones with the outlet). While you can just plug a ready to go bite, blow, and etc. switch into your Canon whith out any extra wireing.
-Laszlo- www.laszloimage.com

Huh? A lot of what you said there is plain b*****. Guess those of the top camera jumpers that are jumping nikon are wrong huh. Don't go bashing a brand you obviously know nothing about. It doesn't make you look too smart.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[PhreeZone 15]

Actually, in speaking to a few people they are jumping X brand since they already had the investment in lenses and didn't feel like selling all their lenses and buying all new just to swap brands fro mwhen they were shooting 35mm.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[The111 0]

Quote

Huh? A lot of what you said there is plain b*****. Guess those of the top camera jumpers that are jumping nikon are wrong huh. Don't go bashing a brand you obviously know nothing about. It doesn't make you look too smart.

Which part specifically was wrong? I'm honestly curious... I know nothing of Nikons. I bought an XT for a first camera and it is working out well for me, but "brand loyalty" is an impossible emotion for me, in any regard (cars, computer, cameras, gear, whatever).

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Laszloimage 0]

Actually I do know about Nikon.
I didn't say it's impossible to use them for skydiving, but lot more difficult. That's why mostly everybody uses Canon in skydiving. Nikon D2Xs uses CMOS sensor (but this camera is big, heavy and expensive) the rest of them are built with CCD.
CMOS is better than CCD!
Can you please tell me which technical fact was inaccurate B***t in my previous posting?
Thanks!
-Laszlo-

..oh the answer to the original question: More resolution is better of course, but if you dont crop the image 8MP or 10MP really doesn't make a differnce if you make an 8x10 print.

[dragon2 0]

CMOS vss CCD, why does that matter for skydiving?

The remote: I started with a Canon D30, you had to make your own remote for that. So what? Same for D60, 10D, 20D. The 300D was the first with an "easy"' remote, but the rest of the camera was frankly crap. I have never known any other camera to have so many problems skydiving. Well maybe the Kodak pro series cameras but those were never mainstream. I about threw my D300 out of the window, as did Bruno fi on the World Team 2004 jumps. A bunch of error99, and you HAD to have a stereo switch or it was REAL slow. 10D, still, a lot of error99, DX-type lenses don't fit on this camera. D20, sometimes an error99. Canon is not made for skydiving any more than Nikon, and the crappy D300 made me switch to Nikon, lenses and all. What's so hard about making your own remote? The more expensive Canons you still have to do it, you make it sound like all Canons have the "standard" plug. What Nikon has had problems? The non-wired ones, maybe, it's not that easy jumping with an IR remote (D70) or the extra grip (D100), but you could have these cameras modded if you wanted to and now you don't need to go through this hassle anymore. There is NOTHING wrong with the 3 camera's I mentioned, D70s D80 D200, they make excellent skydiving cameras. D200 is as good as D5 just way cheaper, if you can live without FF. The newest cheaper rebels are toy camera compared to serious cameras (like 30D, D80 etc), but hey they're lightweight, cheap and easy to mount, which makes them ok for skydiving and they seem like the latest craze. But they are NOT the only possible choice. And frankly I don't like them on the ground they feel like toy cameras, but that's personal. If someone gave me one for free I'd jump it, but I'd still rather have a 30D/D80/D70s or of course a 5D/D200. BTW Nikon doesn't make a "toy" camera that's jumpable (so far), the D40/D50 aren't good choices for skydiving.

If you really want FF, there is only one jumpable option so far, the 5D, but for how many skydivers starting out with stills is that the deciding factor between brands? For that price?

If you want to buy a camera for skydiving, there is nothing wrong with the latest Canons, but nothing wrong with the latest Nikons, either.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Laszloimage 0]

CMOS vs. CCD, why does that matter for skydiving?
low light higher ISO setting (like sunsets) makes a differnce...
Also you can get a "ready to use" external remote for for any Canon, requires no additional rigging!
check this: http://ranchproshop.com/accessories.php?brand=26
Square 1 and other stores are selling them too.
I never had any error99 with any of my cameras (300D, 350D, and 5D). It happaned with others, replacing the compact flash card problem always was gone. (sorry I can't remember which were the exact "bad models").

"D200 is as good as D5 just way cheaper" How about a full frame sensor? The D200 has the 1.5 factor! (plus the 5D has almost 3MP more res. which isn't that important) When you start taking photos on a pro level trust me you want a full frame camera, makes a huge difference! I still use my XT (1.6 factor) and I quiet happy with is performance, but as I said the full frame makes a major leap when you want to utilize your lenses on a pro level. Nikon just doesn't have that yet. Canon has the Ds1, Ds1 markII, and 5D. The only other manufacture actually makes full frame (24x36mm) cameras is Kodak. Tony Hathaway uses one, it was a very good camera 3yrs ago...(deffinetly for the price), but now the 5D is way better for jumping.
But I still agree there's nothing wrong with Nikons, and I deffinetly recommend it if someone already has the lenses.
To start from scrath... Canon. It's not from me it's from photographers from Sports Illustrated who actually shoot for the Olympics (they probably know better...)
-Laszlo-

[iamsam 0]

to the OP : No - Even Jpeg files, as long as saved at best quality, can be interpolated/upsized considerably. Provided they're sharp and in focus and not suffereing high ISO 'noise' - digital grain.

more important is quality of sensor and lens, which is why I have to agree with Laszlo, primarily because Canon make better glass, most Nikon prof' photographers I meet concede this.

So if starting from scratch I'd buy Canon. 350d is light and will do the job, spend as little as you can get away with on the body and as much as you can afford on the right lens(es) for you. best in long run.

Let the Nikon V Canon debate rage on, the most important part of a camera is the user

but what do I know

[BlueSBDeath 2]

Quote

Let the Nikon V Canon debate rage on, the most important part of a camera is the user

Great point, I love it when these guys tell us all the details about our cameras and their prospective on the pro and con of each. I also agree about the user of any brand of camera, it is far more important what is in the helmet than on the helmet

Stay safe everyone!!!

Arvel

BSBD...........Its all about Respect,

USPA#-7062, FB-2197, Outlaw 499

[Laszloimage 0]

100% true!

[KennyP 0]

Ok, tell me if I got this right. Since I'm not willing to spend much over a grand for a camera, I should probably go with either the XTi or the D80. Pixels don't matter a lot at 8X10 unless I'm cropping with the photoshop, in which case I need the 10mp.

The nikon is built better and is better for pictures outside of skydiving.

The XTi is easier to adapt to skydiving and action shots and has better glass.

The glass is the 2nd most important thing and the body is the 3rd.

Neither of these cameras are sealed.

It doesn't matter what I put on my helmet because I'm still an idiot and need to learn how to shoot stills.

I'm right back where I started.

I feel like the broad in Fandango... 'A whole weeks worth of laundry shot to hell'

Thanks for the input. I'm still confused but a little smarter.

[PhreeZone 15]

You won't be sorry with either camera.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[pilotdave 0]

I recommend reading the Rebel XTi and D80 reviews here:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond80/

They compare both cameras with the XT too.

XTi vs D80:
"As we commented in our Nikon D80 review both of these cameras produce very similar levels of detail, the only difference being down to the different image processing choices made by Canon and Nikon. Canon clearly apply slightly more sharpening which produces an image which looks crisper, that said you would struggle to be able to see a difference between these two images, even in a large print."

XTi vs XT:
"There's really no advantage in moving from eight to ten megapixels, the additional 432 horizontal pixels and 288 vertical pixels produce no more detail that can be seen. Indeed if anything the eight megapixel (EOS 350D) image looks slightly sharper 'per pixel' than the ten megapixel image from the EOS 400D."

So even if for cropping, 10mp isn't necessarily better than 8, even with the same lens on such similar cameras.

Dave

[dragon2 0]

Quote

The XTi is easier to adapt to skydiving and action shots and has better glass.

Why is the XTi better for action shots?
And better glass? Nope. The kit lens that comes with both camera's (Canon/Nikon) isn't that good, except if you buy the more expensive Nikon kit lens but that one's heavier. The glass is as good as what you but for the camera to jup with, both Canon and Nikon have excellent lenses. And sigma makes lenses for both if you want that.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[dragon2 0]

Quote

The only other manufacture actually makes full frame (24x36mm) cameras is Kodak. Tony Hathaway uses one, it was a very good camera 3yrs ago...(deffinetly for the price), but now the 5D is way better for jumping.

Is there still anyone using a Kodak? We had 3 versions of them, all had problems (the chip moves about in freefall with resulting unsharp pics, white milky pics, color shifts and the occasional absolutely great pic). They went straight back to Kodak, too bad. I remember Norman Kent's having the same problems if on a lesser scale. The Kodak is a studio camera, unfortunately. Well it was heavy and big too but it WAS FF.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[The111 0]

I think the big one Norman mounts on his hand for wingsuit photos is a Kodak...

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[KennyP 0]

Why is the XTi better for action shots?
___________________________________

First thing, you should consider my comments here to be questions.

From what I've read here, Pop Photo, Ken Rockwell, etc... The line of thought seems to be that canons are a better sport camera. Although the specs between the D80 and XTi don't seem to indicate a definate advantage either way between these two.

As far as glass goes, I should have been more specific. The canon 10mm-22mm lens seems to be a pretty good piece of glass for skydiving and from I've read, it out performs the Sigma 10-22 and is a lot lighter than the tokina 12-24. The nikon lens seemed a little pricey in this range.

Feel free to correct me, I'm here for advice.

[dragon2 0]

The big Canons and the L-seris lenses are great for action sports yes. But the consumer/proconsumer cameras and lenses don't matter. Also, skydiving is not a high-speed sport really, not as much speed difference as the "real" action sports.

I personally do not jump with a zoom, and the fixed wide angle lenses are good from both brands. Haven't checked the tests for the zooms you mention and don't know anyone who does jump them so no opinion there.

ciel bleu,
Saskia