DSE 3 #1 January 12, 2007 I was convinced based on quite a bit of insider and outsider knowledge that Blu-ray/BD would prevail in the HD on DVD format wars. However, now I'm not sure in spite of what I know is coming. I'd guess you want to be sure your player plays both formats. LG and Samsung just introduced two new players that are dual format at CES. I surely hope the i4u article is incorrect. Emailed a couple people on the BluPrint team earlier today, but both claimed no knowledge either way on this issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #2 January 12, 2007 wow, if that is true...Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #3 January 12, 2007 A thought just struck me, and I hope I'm just playing mental poker... The article contains a lot of links to support various statements, but nowhere does it link to a statement from Sony or the BD consortium. Who benefits from such a statement on the eve of the AVN Awards? Toshiba. Would they do such a thing? I dunno, I'd hope not. But it's a scary thought. I do have a BD burner already, and software to write with, and have done a coupla screw-around skydive vids with it. No client has asked for one yet, and I don't expect to get a request outside of a trade show vid for a while yet. This discussion probably should be moved to the Speakers Corner, since it's not directly related to the discipline. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #4 January 12, 2007 Hell no, lets keep the conversation on adoption in the format wars here since it will be impacting all of us in the next 3-5 years. I'd rather get on the train after it starts moving but before its out of the station in terms of formats. The LG player looks extremely slick but the lack of being able to play CD's on it too does make its appeal slightly less for the person looking to ditch their current players and replace just the player component of their home entertainment system. Blueray is already in over a million homes thanks to the PS3, HD-DVD is in about 30,000 max from numbers I've seen. I wish the format war would wrap up in the next few months and we could all know where the direction is going for the next 15 years.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #5 January 12, 2007 Comment from Sony guy on the phone this morning was "As far as I know, this is not true, but what is Sony supposed to say? 'Of course this isn't true, Sony supports the porn industry?'" Something seems really fishy in this. BD is hugely selling straight out of the gate; Best Buy said they immediately sold out of all their players on first order. The Samsungs do play CD's, even though CD's are going the way of the dinosaur. You're going to see more and more releases of music on DVD with and without vid, including lots of bonus add-ons. My label is planning on releasing some "complete" albums with all works of certain artists later this year, and Apple's announcement of 2 billion downloads and Apple now being the 5th largest distributor of music in the world...the death of the CD is certain at some reasonable point in the future. I still feel BD is going to succeed. We showed our year-end vid on BD at the local brew house, and people not at all involved with skydiving came up and wanted to know where they could get a copy, how come it looked so great, what was it filmed with. Half of it was shot with the lil' Sony HC3's and A1U's, but a lot of it was DV upscaled using HDAnywhere from MagicBullet/Red Giant. It did look great, but the interesting thing was that everyone could see how great it looked with an SXRD projector and bigscreen, plus simultaneously streamed to 720p plasmas around the brew house/restaurant. For us, this means eventually, that you'll be able to see every minor detail in the skydive, good and bad. Trust me, you haven't seen really ugly until you see a super flabby floppy face up close and personal on a big screen in HD. Think of Phyllis Diller in a skydive. Back to point, BD is already successful. HD DVD is a good format, just life-limited. Do a search for HD-DVD burners, and you'll find that they're difficult to get your hands on. BD burners are all over the place. Just curious, how many skydivers have already made the jump to HD in some format? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyinseivLP2 0 #6 January 12, 2007 Here is another article http://www.tgdaily.com/2007/01/11/ces2007_hddvd_blu_ray/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #7 January 12, 2007 I can see the death of the CD too but not for a long time. The issue I see out there now is the sheer number of legacy disks that need to still be supported. I've only got about 100 CD's in my collection but I know people with thousands and its a hard pill to swallow that all of a sudden their collection is renedered obsolete. Also the mobile market has been slower then usual to adopt DVD as an audio medium for cars. They are more likely to include a front audio jack on the stereo then they are to include a DVD reader in dash. I'm hoping to make the jump to an HD camera at some point in the next year or so. At that point I'll wait a bit before getting a burner since I want to wait until the consumer base is there for mass usage. I also want to wait for the cost per disk to fall. I'd love for it to be at the current DVD price of less then .10 per disk in quanity. I don't see the adoption rate currently as high enough to warrent trying to sell HD tandem videos, but I do see it worth my time and money to shoot in HD now so that in the future I already have a pile of footage in HD in the can instead of in SD.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #8 January 12, 2007 The guy quoted in that article couldn't have possibly been more wrong. XBox doesn't have built in HD DVD, how many users are really gonna run out and by a *second* DVD player that plugs into their XBox? Playstation already has nearly a million installations with BD in it. That article also isn't directly from AVN, who on their website, still is supporting BD, but AVN show is this week, so that may be updated later. VIVID is also a BD supporter, but that too, could change this weekend. Not sure. I'd surely like to know the host force behind the sudden turn, because at CES, the AVN people were in the Sony booth, and still very much BD supporters as of Wednesday when I left. Odd that in 24 hours timeframe, it turned around. Would be great to hear Sony comment (not sure what they could say though) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #9 January 12, 2007 Quote Just curious, how many skydivers have already made the jump to HD in some format? I want to. The cost of burners and discs is a limiting factor. I don't want to get too much into recording in a format that I can only play with the camera. Last time I took a jump like that too early I ended up with a camcorder that was very hard to get video into a computer with. So I'm holding out to know more about where the bigger industry wants to go.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #10 January 12, 2007 Quote Would be great to hear Sony comment (not sure what they could say though) It would be a hell of a bold move to say they support the porn industry, but they could come out and say that they are not restricting the content that is put on the discs. I mean, they would have to word it right, but somehow they could. It would be a smart move on thier part. I just don't understand the stupidity of HD-DVD because from everything that I have read, its not half of what BD can be.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #11 January 12, 2007 Only thing I see as an advantange is that HD-DVD is burying the content deeper in the disk material so the protective cover isn't needed.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #12 January 12, 2007 They don't have to make any statement whatsoever... all that needs to happen is for a porn to show up on BD. If something like that was to happen it would discount any rumors to the contrary and yet they aren't actually making a statement. I mean if you think about it... its kind of a double standard... its OK for HD-DVD to support the porn industry by default but its not ok for sony to deny that they are not in fact censoring the content on BD. Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swish 0 #13 January 14, 2007 check this out: The research clearly shows that people are thrilled with high-definition devices and the stunning home entertainment experience they provide,” said Ron Sanders, President, Warner Home Video. “Now Total Hi Def provides the complete package with all the benefits of HD DVD and Blu-ray on a single disc. http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5659 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #14 January 14, 2007 yes, Warner announced the technology. Question is whether they'll be able to deliver. For example, LG last week, announced their new dual format player, and immediately had to retract the announcement, as they are being sued by the DVD consortium. Because HD DVD uses Java/iHD and LG didn't license this technology from Microsoft, they've already been served papers from Microsoft and the DVD consortium. I won't be surprised if Warner finds themselves in a similar boat. Both HD DVD and Blu-ray are blue laser formats. The differences are the way the data is stored and the pitch of the laser. It really isn't that hard to technically make it all work. The problem isn't technical. It's legal. Licenses here, licenses there, everywhere a license by somebody making their dime on the formats. It's business, it's all good, but the consumer gets screwed in the meantime. Also bear in mind that most of us are on the cusp of technology. Mom and Pop Jones don't really know much about the differences. Yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #15 January 15, 2007 its good to know that corporations are looking out for the consumer... er... wait... nevermind... Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #16 January 15, 2007 Icon, you think it's bad now... Toshiba announces a triple layer disc that we all thought was gonna be announced last fall. But today they announce it....but it's incompatible with current HD DVD players, so users will need to buy a different HD DVD player. Can you imagine how tweaked current owners of players are? Conversely, BD is expected to announce by NAB, a 250GB format via Samsung, that is compatible with existing BD players. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #17 January 15, 2007 I have a PS3 hooked up via HDMI to a 60 inch tv that does 1080i (but not 1080p) and got superman returns on blu-ray, and i can't really tell a difference from a normal DVD (maybe it's the movie). Games, however, look great. I originally thought blu-ray would win because a) of the PS3 install base and b) from my understanding, far more studios are backing blu-ray as opposed to hd-dvd. Now, the ps3 is getting killed compared to the xbox360 and the wii due to a horrific launch, so while blu-ray has over a million ps3s in homes as an install base, i don't think sony's out of the woods yet. The Xbox360 has a much larger install base and if, for some reason, the ps3 were to fail, the 200 dollar HD-DVD add on may look way more attractive as a player. i want an HD video camera for skydiving purposes, but i want to wait until a model comes out that can be side-mounted that gets good reviews -- from reading on here my impression is that the canon cameras aren't very good or as good as the sony hi-def models. on the death of cds, i dont think that people who own thousands of cds will really care in as much as their cds won't become obsolete by buying a new format -- i'd imagine that any player that can play discs that size will be able to play cds. i'd think that people would just be upset if albums suddenly cost more because they only came on DVD as opposed to cd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #18 January 15, 2007 Quoteon the death of cds, i dont think that people who own thousands of cds will really care in as much as their cds won't become obsolete by buying a new format -- i'd imagine that any player that can play discs that size will be able to play cds. i'd think that people would just be upset if albums suddenly cost more because they only came on DVD as opposed to cd. LG's already announced that their multi-format player will not offer the ability to play CD's due to the issues with having to have a laser to read them that is different then the one needed to read DVD's, HD DVD's and BD's. Physical size of the disks being the same no longer means the disks will play. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #19 January 15, 2007 QuoteI have a PS3 hooked up via HDMI to a 60 inch tv that does 1080i (but not 1080p) and got superman returns on blu-ray, and i can't really tell a difference from a normal DVD (maybe it's the movie). Games, however, look great. . That's wild! I have both BD and SD versions of Superman returns, and I can see a whopping difference. Put in a regular DVD and see if it looks as sharp as SR? Something sounds weird. Don't expect to see a side-mountable HD cam for a long, long time. All the new cams are announced for now, and it'll be April 08 before you'll see much new. Expect a new cam from Sony at NAB 07, but it won't be side/PC-type mountable. The factory that made those cams is closed, and the other factories are re-tooled for the HC series, from what I've been told. Pansonic has announced theirs, JVC have announced theirs, and Canon is shipping/announced all of theirs for the next year. So, either figure out how to inconveniently side mount HD with a box or other method, or go top mount, or stay SD. Those are about the only choices right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #20 January 15, 2007 well....damn it then! i suppose that it shouldn't be that difficult to have a CD player to play those on, but it sucks that they don't have backward compatibility! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #21 January 15, 2007 i think i was expecting the clarity to be something like i see on discovery HD or some of the video games i've played...i guess if i played the regular dvd of the movie i'd probably see a difference. is the movie in (at least) 1080i or is it lower hi-def like 720p? could also be that maybe the ps3's player isn't as good as dedicated players are...i know that the ps2's dvd player was serviceable but not great when it originally came out. i think i just expected to be wowed but wasnt. and as far as the video cameras, i was hopin for a side mount so that i could eventually also slap a stills camera on the top...oh well Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #22 January 15, 2007 The output on any BD player should be identical, and you should be seeing resolution identical to discovery channel. I'd be checking your television settings. It could also be that the scaler in your display isn't all that great. Your image from BD should be equal to, or better than Discovery Channel. The SR DVD is 1080p. It could be that the P converter in your display isn't up to snuff. Discovery broadcasts 1080i. With an FTP helmet, you get a topmount cam and a front mount stills Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erikph 0 #23 January 16, 2007 Quote I have a PS3 hooked up via HDMI to a 60 inch tv that does 1080i (but not 1080p) and got superman returns on blu-ray, and i can't really tell a difference from a normal DVD (maybe it's the movie). Games, however, look great. Apparently, early PS3 autoscaled to 480p when connected to a 1080 display. there is a firmware upgrade for this. see http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=12011 "- Selecting video output resolution has changed, allowing you to choose all the resolutions supported by the TV. The video will automatically be displayed at the maximum resolution possible, according to the following order: 1080p, 1080i, 720p, 480p, Standard (NTSC)."blue skies, http://myjumps.blogspot.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #24 January 16, 2007 good find! Wasn't aware of the downscale. Even better to know it is a firmware upgrade that can be downloaded. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #25 January 16, 2007 Ahh yeah, that's probably it -- i downloaded the update but had watched the movie before i downloaded it...i should watch it again to experience the blu-ray hi-def goodness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
