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davidpanal

Do we have to give free photos and videos???

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Hi,
I do videos for tandems but sometimes I jump with RW groups for sun and do video and photos for me But usually in the end people want those photos, like heyy man can you send then to me with email!!
Some of them are friends but even when a packer who is a friend packs my gear I pay him but then he wants my photos I am not really after the money with them but I paid over 2000 euro for my video gear and I feel like there should be so return for that What do you guys do in a stiation like this? I do not want to have reputation as money hungar person but I think there should be some price for my work by the way it is good

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I get asked this a lot from people. Generally I never email them to people. That's way too much work. There's a couple different scenarios:

- They're people I don't know: I ask them if they have a USB stick, if so, I'll copy the pics to their USB drive and ask a couple euros per picture. If they don't have a usb stick, I'll burn them to a CD (I usually have some blanks with me for this purpose).
- They're aquantances: I'll copy them to USB for free or to a CD for some money for the CD.
- They're good friends whom I jump with regularly: I'll copy them to USB or a CD for free. In rare cases, I might even email them. ;)

Yes, your gear did cost a lot of money, so don't feel bad asking for some money for the pictures. If you price it reasonably, people are usually happy to give you some money in return.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Costyn.
Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News

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If my slot was covered, they get the pics, anyway they want provided it is not TOO much work (ie no 5mb limit email addresses!). If I paid my own slot, depending on who asks, I ask for something in return like packjobs, food from the bar, some cash.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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What is the best way to to ask money? I mean if I have 30 to 40 great photos and 4 out of the ten way I flimed want the photos?



Well, are they 30 to 40 great fotos from 1 jump? I do take a lot of pictures per jump (40 to 50), but I usually keep 10 to 15 really nice ones from that jump. And then if people are paying for the pictures, I tell them the price and show them the pictures, and then they can point out which ones they want.

For friends, yes it is hard to ask money. I don't usually ask people I jump with often to pay me money... dunno, maybe some other bigger formation RW photographers can chime in?

Thanks for the complement on our website. We try to keep it interesting and updated with pictures (gonna be more pictures up later this week!).
Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News

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What is the best way to to ask money? I mean if I have 30 to 40 great photos and 4 out of the ten way I flimed want the photos



Work out a price list for everything ahead of time. How much for a video dub, or a dvd. How much for one pic on a cd, or one on a memory stick. How much for all the pics on a cd. How much for actual prints.

Print it out, and keep it with you. If anyone asks for anything, say sure, and show then the price list.

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I enjoy going out with local fun jumper RW flyers... a lot of people ask for video after the jumps... I'll usually offer them a dvd of the video for $10-20.

There are times that I'll provide stills/video for free... of course I don't do this skydiving thing for money and I'm still learning... always learning...
Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

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You just answerd to your question. "even when a packer who is a friend packs my gear I pay him but then he wants my photos" So what makes your photography less valuable than a pack job?
Nothig!!! It requires more time, expirince, and skills in the sport than being a packer. And of course lot more financial investment to buy the equipment.
To dub the video to DVD is at least $10, to make an 8x10 photo print is at least $15. If some one is asking for the digital file that's even lot more, imagine how many prints they can make at home, or even worst the image is used for advertisement and cutting you off totaly not even receiving a credit for the photo(happened to me). So if someone asking me for digital they either get an e-mail size picture with a watermark (max 640x480 pixels no more than 85% quality) or they have to pay lot more and sign an AGREEMENT!!!

There was another discussion thread about this here on DZ.com, please go back about 2weeks and check that one out too.

Laszlo www.laszloimage.com

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I'm glad to read this thread. I am in the process of starting to charge people for video and pictures etc.


(I haven't yet, but I am going to start very soon)
It's hard once you have already been giving some freebee's away but they'll have to deal with it, or hate me for it.
My photos

My Videos

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What is the best way to to ask money?



if you are skinny, lift up your shirt and show your ribs, explain you haven't eaten in days, because you spent all your food money on photo paper and ink. all too often this is the truth. a video flyers work is worth money.
if your slot was not paid for, you need to recover that cost as well.
every thing you buy costs you money, why give awesome pictures away for free?.........unless it's a hot chick.
Stay Safe,
Jimoke
The ground always, remembers where you are!

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While I don't fly camera yet (I plan to one day), I do have an opinion....

Is this a hobby or a profession for you?

When I used to shoot stills and video for skiing and boarding, I viewed it as a hobby. I love to do it, so I enjoyed sharing it with whoever wanted it.

What was your motivation to start flying camera? To make money or to gather and record memories? Besides in the digital world how hard is it to connect one cable at the end of the day (when you would be doing the same anyway for yourself)?

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In the digital world I end up shooting 400+ photos in a day if I'm the least bit interested in shooting anything. I don't have a laptop and instead have a stand alone burner that I use to burn Tandem students photos or to backup my card so I can wipe it.

I'm changing my policy this next year and will be charging a few bucks for any still I give away. Its going to help pay off the new camera I bought. Skydiving is a high risk area that ends up destroying a lot of gear and really puts wear on the camera, this leads to it wearing out sooner then if I was taking it to the local football game. I'm not made of money so I need to pay to replace it somehow. Granted there are some people that their money is no good with me and will get free stills, but its because they have paid me off in many other ways that go way beyond anything I could ever hope to pay them back with.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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***Besides in the digital world how hard is it to connect one cable at the end of the day (when you would be doing the same anyway for yourself)?***

I tell you what homes, you go ahead and do your hobbie thing, and once you rack up the kind of bucks that most of us have in all our shit on the head and maybe lost a cam or two and all the rigs and all the editing shit and all the extra shit we have to do the job, then you come back here and talk some more of your bullshit!
Till then, stay on the porch if you can't run with the big dogs! In other words, you need to get a clue!
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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It is still my hoby but I am also half pro which means I started this for me and also make part of my living from skydiving. The point is I feel like skydiving friends are very confortanble when it comes to camera flyers, I newer see skydivers tell a packers comeee onnn pack it for me free or telling tandem master I ll pay your jump and you make a tandem with my wife or friend, but when it comes to camera flyers it happens all the time, this season I made at least 20 tandems videos and photos as gift, but if lose my gear up there in that fee jump, no one is gone say sorry letme help you to buy a new one.

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This has been a challenging question for a long time.

If it's a 4-way team that I've been training (and they've been covering my costs) w/ of coarse they get anything they want. Provided it's for their personal use or to promote the team.

If it is big way stuff. I charge for downloads and stills. Even if my costs are covered. I used to do a a regualr monthly gig w/ a group of 15-30 jumpers that would hire a coach/organizer and cover my costs. Almost everyone wanted a copy of their jumps at the end of the day. As this was in the VHS days that meant that after sunset everyone was at the campfire or at dinner and I was still dubbibng video.
However when I lost my video camera jumping with this group they took up a collection that almost covered the cost of a new camera. A class act group of jumpers!
We do have a local guy who does video for fun groups and 4way teams. He pays for his own slots, pack jobs and expenses (even for 4way comp.!) and never charges for anything. He makes good money and says that it's the least he can do. He is a great guy but he makes things very diffucult for the rest of us. Sometimes I'll feel like a scrooge when all I want is my slot covered or a pack job.
This is one of the reasons that with the exception of 4way, I do very little video anymore ...plus it's fun to touch people some times!
kar

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What was your motivation to start flying camera? To make money or to gather and record memories? Besides in the digital world how hard is it to connect one cable at the end of the day (when you would be doing the same anyway for yourself)?



The problem is that poeple want things. They want you to film their jump. They want you to run to make a bacl to back load to film their jump. They want stills. They want them printed. They want all 10 guys from a ten-way to walk away with a DVD or a print. They want to watch the video, over and over again. It goes on and on.

People ask for alot. Between the video gear, your slot, and the time and slots it takes to be able to produce a quality product, it takes alot just to get to the place where people want stuff.

If it's just for fun, the fun goes away when people ask and ask and ask and take and take and take.

If it''s a job, then you need to get paid.

Anyway you look at it, video and stills aren't free.

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While I don't fly camera yet (I plan to one day), I do have an opinion....

Is this a hobby or a profession for you?

When I used to shoot stills and video for skiing and boarding, I viewed it as a hobby. I love to do it, so I enjoyed sharing it with whoever wanted it.

What was your motivation to start flying camera? To make money or to gather and record memories? Besides in the digital world how hard is it to connect one cable at the end of the day (when you would be doing the same anyway for yourself)?



I use to think like this also. I am not an experience camera flyer whatsoever (about 160 jumps or so) so I know my opinion isn't worth much but... When I first started flying camera people use to ask me for videos that they might have been the base on or a cool exit shot and I was all cool with it (talking about video camera, no stills). But lately it's getting kinda old. It get's real annoying when all you want to do is jump and after ever jump people are bothering you for the video. I don't have any equipment at the DZ so I have to go home and editing on my computer, all which takes time. Don't get me wrong I have no problem playing the jump back on my camera when we get down but I don't have the time to edited video for 5 people when I have school, work, and my own stuff to do. The only time I really don't mind is when I jump on special jumps (eg. 100th, 500th) in which case I am happy to get the video to the person. I also now tell people that I don't fly to shoot video, the camera is on my head for my own personal reasons and I am not out there to get the shot, I am out there to skydive.
_________________________________________
www.myspace.com/termvelocity

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I'm glad to read this thread. I am in the process of starting to charge people for video and pictures etc.

(I haven't yet, but I am going to start very soon)
It's hard once you have already been giving some freebee's away but they'll have to deal with it, or hate me for it.


Cool. Let me know when you're going to start charging, then we'll do a bunch of jumps before then.;)
Agreed though. What I would do with photos is, print out a contact sheet, or send them one, then have them chose a few, print them out 4x6 or 8x10, plus give them the high res image for a fee. Make it a package, so it allows you to charge more. Like $12 for the high res image and 8x10 print. The paper/ink should only cost about $1.50, then email the high res image or put it on a CD for 25 cents.
When you're done, we can put up a lemonade stand outside of the hangar.:o Mo money, mo money!

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Anyway you look at it, video and stills aren't free



I take that back. Video and stills are free at the videographers discretion, and only after repeatedly refusing to accept payment.

Even then, jumpers should hide a five-spot in your jumpsuit, or pick up your tab at the bar that night.

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I think the question here is not if you have to give away stills and video for those you jump with, the real question here is what is this doing to the skydive photography Industry?.

Bottom line. The video guy has the right to give away or charge what he thinks his work is worth, but, if there is a guy at the DZ doing it for free why pay for the service at all? We are all video guys in this forum the difference here is some are doing it for a living, and some for fun or extra money (You can argue the extra money point, since how long would it take to buy and replace your equipment or really make money of it) perhaps.

To charge less than what the dropzone charges for video on a tandem jump is equitable to taking money away from the DZ and the person who makes a living doing it.

That does not include favors we do for friends like firewire video between friends on a jump or give away pictures again the video guy is the only one who can decide that.

I’m guilty for doing video and stills for tandems covering or not my slot, all of them very close friends or family members who would not consider doing a tandem if I did not have sell them the idea to jump in the first place.

When give away your work think about what is that doing to the friend we all have making a living doing the same thing working full time at the DZ.
http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

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Paper and ink ends up being way over $1.50 when you figure in a $150+ printer, ink at 20-30 a cartrage, the software/hardware to do color adjustments to match the monitor and printer and all the other things including replacement costs on the cameras and lenses.

On a given skydive I am taking $1200-1800 worth of camera's and putting them on a $650 helmet with a $125 ring sight and dytters worth that too. I've about lost the helmet on opening and would have been out about $2500 all so you can get a still for free and would have never helped to replace it... Not any more, I'm charging from now on ;)
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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