Failed Coach Eval Jump

[smoothflyin 0]

Hey guys, just wanted to learn a little from things that you have been through or heard about happening in regards to the coach eval jumps.

I am scheduled to take the course (Finally!) and just want to get some insight on things to look out for.

that being said, what are some things that you have heard people getting busted for on the evals?

Thanks I appreciate it!

-Aaron

[Unstable 8]

When I took the couch course, the big 'trick' was our evaluator who would switch packing data cards on the rigs and think it was funny.

Also dumb stuff like the evaluator sneaking off the seatbelt or something along those lines.

=========Shaun ==========

[InfiniteSky 0]

I was lucky to have two evaluators who weren't out to try and "get" you. Instead they just acted like a less than ideal students.

So just focus on doing everything as if you were taking up a student who had just gotten signed off on solo status. Give them a very thorough gear check and monitor them on the ground and up to altitude. Pay attention in the air, because if you can't give them a good accurate debrief you'll probably fail the eval. Anyone with decent skills can fly with a student. Being able to accurately debrief and come up with a plan for things to work on for said student is what makes you a coach.

A couple big things from my course were in the air. Letting the student hit you (I'm talking about uncontrolled hits not docks) is an automatic fail, and they did try to hit me. Make sure your student actually tracks away and if they don't you better get out fast. And don't break the assigned hard deck. The "hard deck" on those jumps is usually higher than your personal one and it's easy to get sucked down to it with an unruly "student" and fail a jump.

But like I said, just imagine your evaluator really is a student and go about your business and you should be fine.

[NWFlyer 2]

Relax and have fun with it. I think I stressed more about being ready for my coach course than I needed to. That said, if you do want to prepare, get the IRM ahead of time (and a current version of the SIM if yours is old) and read the sections on ground prep and instructional technique. At least in my coach course, there was a lot of emphasis on the ground work, more so than the in-air. Along those lines, expect some sort of problem in the gear check - which might be somewhat obvious (alti not zeroed out, mis-routed chest strap, open flap, etc.) but might also be more subtle (missing something like goggles or alti). You're looking for things that are wrong, but also look for things that aren't there.

I found the in-air jumps to be a lot of fun, and watching them pull "stupid student tricks" was actually amusing. "Oh look, there he goes into an AWESOME spiral track" or "He kinda looks like he's having a seizure ... oh, I guess that's supposed to be potato chipping!" The real key in the air is can you be safe? Can you be there? Can you observe and recall what you saw so you can give a good debrief?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[sundevil777 93]

Being able to stay very close as the 'student' continually turns may be required. A fast "orbit" like that isn't easy for those that haven't done lots of RW.

All the other stuff has already been mentioned.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[monkycndo 0]

Things to remember.

Good and clear prebrief of TLOs. This is where the the hard work is. My instructor would do one eval dive where he would give you some things to correct to see how you would react. One eval dive would be of what the prebrief covered. He would do just as instructed. Good prebrief equaled easy eval. If you left an opening for confusion or didn't correct his misunderstanding, be prepared for Mr. Toads wild ride.

All instructions are giving in the positive(do this, do that, etc) as compared to don't do ... etc.

Full gear check(including data card to make sure rig is in date) at gear up, then standard check of 3s and SHAG just before loading plane, pin/handle check in plane.


Helmet and seat belt check at taxiing.


Student provides review of TLOs in plane. Provide any corrections necessary. There will be some.

On exit, be ready for student to try to leave early when you are not ready, or hesitate and get you to leave too early.

During dive, watch student and provide any necessary signals, all while maintaining altitude awareness. Make sure "student" sees you looking at your alti. If you give a signal, remember altitude that it was given for later debrief.

Student often will bust hard deck. Do as you were taught if that occurs. Make sure you pull on time.

During canopy ride, go over skydive to get it set in your head for debrief.

At debrief, student will often have a different memory of what actually happened. It is coaches job to be confident of what happened to be able to assist in providing positive feedback on what went well and areas for improvement. And provide it in that order, praise then correction.

If you look confident and are having fun, your jump will often go a little more as planned.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[Ron 7]

1. Listen to the evaluators.... They want to pass you and will provide you all the information you need to know to pass.

2. Remember that this is a beginners instructional rating. They do not expect you to have the flying skills of an AFF-I.

Listen to what they tell you, execute what they told you and you will be fine.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[matthewcline 0]

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1. Listen to the evaluators.... They want to pass you and will provide you all the information you need to know to pass.

2. Remember that this is a beginners instructional rating. They do not expect you to have the flying skills of an AFF-I.

Listen to what they tell you, execute what they told you and you will be fine.

+1

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Para5-0 0]

Being I am giving the coach course next Friday I will tell you my thoughts. I do not attempt to trick a student or do anything that he/she will not see from a real student. Although I have been know to put my helmet on backwards now and again. Usually not caught by the way.

Exit- Keep your proximity so when the evaluator looks at you, you are right there ready to go. This is harder than most think if the evaluator turns to the left from a front float position. You will have to actually track up the hill to stay in the proper slot.

Freefall- Be proactive keep the dive going, Give nice clear thumbs up to initiate the next phase of the dive. Watch your distances. I try to be a very good student so I can see you flying the dive.

Pull TIme- Be prepared for a no pull senario, I give it quite often.
You will have to wave off to signal break, turn and track and deploy by 3500.
I will try to make you bust your hard deck. You will be surprised how many times The coach candidate busts. Usually a complete surprise that I am not breaking off.

Canopy- Watch your evaluator, meet him on the ground.

Smile it is over.

[labrys 0]

As others have said, try very hard to read the exit correctly. Pay less attention to the count than you do to watching the "students" hands / feet leave the plane.

If you're doing forward to re-dock / fall rate jumps on your evals, remember to pay attention to your legs. It's terribly easy to back away from a student to let them come in to re-dock and then focus on what they are doing and forget to stop backing up... keep track of your own legs while you watch theirs!

Be able to debrief accurately. If your evaluator tracks off in a big arc to one side they expect you to remember that. If they don't check their altitude often enough they expect you to notice. If they dive for the ground on exit rather than work with the relative wind... likewise.

It's lots off fun though!

Owned by Remi #?

[chuckakers 370]

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...just focus on doing everything as if you were taking up a student...

nuff said.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

As above,

Plus:

Know the automatic UNsatisfactory criteria for your jump. Avoid those and the rest will likely be ok if you RELAX.

HAVE FUN!!! I remember my last coach eval dive fondly. There were three or four candidates on the plane with our evaluators.... We provided entertainment for the fun jumpers with our hypercareful in-plane routines. That was my last jump with my friend who was my evaluator before his untimely death a few weeks later (not due to jumping).

Smile, breathe, relax

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[labrys 0]

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...just focus on doing everything as if you were taking up a student...

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nuff said.

How is this helpful to someone who hasn't taken the course yet and has never jumped with a student before?

Owned by Remi #?

[matthewcline 0]

Just to add, in bold.

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Being I am giving the coach course next Friday I will tell you my thoughts. I do not attempt to trick a student or do anything that he/she will not see from a real student. Although I have been know to put my helmet on backwards now and again. Usually not caught by the way.As a Coach you should not see Students, We Instructors, call "Problem Children". If you do the "I" is making the mistake in passing them. Of course, some can regress.

Exit- Keep your proximity so when the evaluator looks at you, you are right there ready to go. This is harder than most think if the evaluator turns to the left from a front float position. You will have to actually track up the hill to stay in the proper slot.There are things, "tips" or "tricks", that can help in this. Watching the hands and hips for "commitment" to the exit.

Freefall- Be proactive keep the dive going, Give nice clear thumbs up to initiate the next phase of the dive. Watch your distances. I try to be a very good student so I can see you flying the dive.

Pull Time- Be prepared for a no pull scenario, I give it quite often.You will get this at least once in the Eval's and will see it on occasion in the "real world".
You will have to wave off to signal break, turn and track and deploy by 3500.
I will try to make you bust your hard deck. You will be surprised how many times The coach candidate busts. Usually a complete surprise that I am not breaking off.

Canopy- Watch your evaluator, meet him on the ground.Treat this as a Student Jump, it is after all, and if they beat you to the ground move to them.

Smile it is over.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[redramdriver 0]

Exactly what everyone else said, even to the nth point of have fun. I was the least experienced in my class of 4 people, I was just filling in so the DZ could get a course to begin with. After all was said and done, there were only two of us that passed the course.


Two others unfortunately thought they had it in the bag so to speak and didn't finish the course. I went into the course feeling I had no business being there, enjoyed the instruction, learned a whole hell of a lot that I thought I allready knew, and walked away with my Coach ticket.

The only thing that the instructor did that caught me off guard, has already been mentioned. He flew right past me, busting it all in a back flying track, went way below "our" hard deck. He was watching me, not busting through and pulled at altitude.

I still chat with my instructor to this day (thanks Mike!)

Enjoy. Relax, Breath!

So, you bring your beer?

Its 5 o'clock somewhere
POPS #9344

[chuckakers 370]

Quote

Quote

...just focus on doing everything as if you were taking up a student...

Quote

nuff said.

How is this helpful to someone who hasn't taken the course yet and has never jumped with a student before?

That's a very good question, Mr. Hicks.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[DanG 1]

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Being able to stay very close as the 'student' continually turns may be required. A fast "orbit" like that isn't easy for those that haven't done lots of RW.

You want to stay close to them, but don't orbit around the student. Your job is to provide a stable reference point. If you orbit while they turn, they'll never realize they are turning.

- Dan G

[Para5-0 0]

Good additional points: A bit more on exits: in bold

Exit- Keep your proximity so when the evaluator looks at you, you are right there ready to go. This is harder than most think if the evaluator turns to the left from a front float position. You will have to actually track up the hill to stay in the proper slot.There are things, "tips" or "tricks", that can help in this. Watching the hands and hips for "commitment" to the exit.

I typically do three exits that you should be prepared for. As Matt said have a light touch on the student and leave with him regardless of the count, we tend not to do the best counts.
I always leave from a front float and coach candidate from middle. I will push out extra hard and slowly turn left, causing you to have to fly up the hill and left slightly, so when I look to my right youare there. Second, normal front float exit without a good count. or third I just drop right down next to the plane. This is very tricky because you can easily go right on top of me. you have to anticipate the drop and drop faster than I. Watching the camera step.

A big FWIW; This is out of a larger turbine plane. If you are doing it out of a cessna disregard. haha sorry

[DSE 3]

Be sure to pay specific attention to your "student" on the ground. Whatever he/she does there, he/she will do in the air. Almost guaranteed.

As an examiner, this is one of my favorite components of the training.

[Para5-0 0]

completely agree. If I am trained wrong on the ground or if I practice improper technique and it goes uncorrected, you can expect it in the air.

It makes a nice segway to debrief the importance of proper ground training.

"Perfect practice makes perfect permanent"

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Be sure to pay specific attention to your "student" on the ground. Whatever he/she does there, he/she will do in the air. Almost guaranteed.

As an examiner, this is one of my favorite components of the training.

One of my pet peeves with instructors, ones who demonstrate less than correctly and/or don't correct the student's ground practice. If you want them to do it right in the air, teach them correctly and observe exactly how they do it on the ground.

Just like how you taught me those bitchin' wingsuit exits this weekend.

[pchapman 261]

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One of my pet peeves with instructors, ones who demonstrate less than correctly and/or don't correct the student's ground practice.

Yeah.
One aspect of that is it is easy to instruct poorly because even when part of what the instructor does or says is 100% accurate, another part of what they are doing is inaccurate. The instructor knows what part is accurate, and thinks his teaching is being transmitted effectively, since he knows what part not to pay attention to. But the student doesn't, and picks up the wrong cues.

For example, the instructor is describing something about body position, and does some sort of arm waving demonstration, or a quick casual demo on a creeper. But he's not demonstrating the position exactly. So he's showing a proper upper body twist for a turn, for a box man position, but casually leaves his arms low while standing and demonstrating, hands near his shoulders instead of up high by his head. The instructor thinks, "Well of course you have to have your arms up towards your head in the air -- I reinforced that lesson two jumps ago." But the student may not remember that when he sees the instructor always demonstrating freefall position with hands by the shoulders, and pick up cues from that.

So either be just talking about something, or when demonstrating, do it entirely correctly.

It's so easy to get into casual half assed demonstrations and arm waving, where the student gets the wrong ideas because all sorts of conflicting things going on, even when the instructor has been giving out absolutely correct information as well.


(If the position on the ground or training devices don't allow doing it quite the same as in the air, point out the differences. Also, one can demonstrate only particular aspects as long as it is made clear. E.g., "OK, focus on my legs -- ignore my arms for now -- we'll just work on the leg position for this practice.")

Just my opinion.

[smoothflyin 0]

great stuff guys! Keep it coming, thanks a lot for all of the insight!

[Cheach 0]

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Be sure to pay specific attention to your "student" on the ground. Whatever he/she does there, he/she will do in the air. Almost guaranteed.

As an examiner, this is one of my favorite components of the training.

That is exactly what my evaluator said. He told me to relax, and that whatever I taught him on the ground- he would do in air. Except, well, I didn't teach him that awesome swimmer, trying to get back in the plane exit.....but it WAS funny, and he still had a great arch.

I woke up next to a blowup doll Ash....so what do you think?

[theonlyski 3]

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That is exactly what my evaluator said. He told me to relax, and that whatever I taught him on the ground- he would do in air. Except, well, I didn't teach him that awesome swimmer, trying to get back in the plane exit.....but it WAS funny, and he still had a great arch.

Yeah, thats what mine said too!

I KNOW I didn't teach him to rip me off the plane, take the wrong place in the door, not give an exit count and TRY to track under me.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
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