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MB38

Canon's new HDV camera

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Which wide-angle lens are you using? Does it resolve to HD or is it just a standard SD lens?



I just used a regular Diamond .3 the camera I was jumping isn't mine and honestly it didn't look that bad. I don't want to sound stupid by saying it is _just_ glass, but kinda that is how I feel at least in terms of what im gonna be able to use. Any of the lenses I have seen designed for HD camcorders are much bigger than I am willing to put on a side mount camera and I don't really want to top mount.
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

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350+ jumps with out an external indicator and I've only missed one shot and I caught it on the outside of the plane. Cam-Eyes are great, but they are not as required as a rig is to video people ;)



I totally agree here, Erk. I have a Cameye, but never saw a need to install it with the way I do my videos.

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No one has one, it's not shipping. I had a review preproduction model last week in Las Vegas, it's an impressive lil' cam, that will probably do well in the skydiving world. It's not as good a picture as the HC3 for fast motion, but it takes significantly better stills. Has a better form factor for skydivers than the HC3, that's a given.

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No one has one, it's not shipping. I had a review preproduction model last week in Las Vegas, it's an impressive lil' cam, that will probably do well in the skydiving world. It's not as good a picture as the HC3 for fast motion, but it takes significantly better stills. Has a better form factor for skydivers than the HC3, that's a given.



What specific fast motion issues are we talking about? Is is focus related, image stabalization problems? Slow shutter?
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

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It has a LANC, yes.
I think the imager struggles a bit with motion when the cam is moving, haven't dissected the macroblocks yet. If anything, it's imager/stabilizer related, and that's an electronic/software fix...timing overall, and that can be tweaked. Canon was thrilled to have some skydiving footage to work with so they could look at other aspects of the cam.
Also bear in mind the one I have is a pre-production unit, so it's not 100% of what the release will be. I'll be buying one, because unlike the HC3, it has audio input/output.

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Arrghh, the blue cover (usually signifying LANC, isn't. Headphone, not LANC.
Apologies. I saw that and assumed, given it's the color usually used (if not black) to indicate LANC.
There is no LANC on this cam. Perhaps to keep the price down, they discluded the LANC as it involves a license payment to Sony.

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You mentioned a better form factor. Did you have to make a custom camera box for the new Canon or is there an existing one already on the market that works?

BTW, several websites such as amazon.com show the camera in stock for anywhere from $849-$1049. Hopefully they are actually shipping and not hiding the truth.

David

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From the footage I saw today, I would say forget about using this camera for skydiving. The footage I saw had the camera in 2 different configurations, a camera condom and then later in a Bonehaed CF box. No matter how it was configured the image looked like an earthquake in the sky. The camera cannot handle the turbulent airflow and movments associated with freefall from what I witnessed. There is definitely something to be said for Sony quality.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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Don’t jump an HV-10:

I jumped a PC-100 for 2k jumps and have jumped the HC-3 since May. I love the HD video of the HC-3, but really don't like the top mount that its size requires.

-I don't like the extra leverage a top mount exerts on my neck during deployment
-it is easier to get good inside freefly video when the lens is at eye level vs. teetering on top
-since there is no 'd-box for the HC-3 yet, I have banged it against the ceiling of our spacious PAC-750 several times causing the unfortunately located power switch to turn off;
-I also dropped it on my garage floor and broke the viewfinder- but I think that was my fault.

I longed for a 'PC-Style' HD camera, but Sony seems to be moving away from them. The Sanyo XACTI cam turned out to be a turkey, but the Canon HV-10 looked like it was going to be the answer. Its reviews described an image quality similar to the HC-3, in an upright package almost half as bulky. I have had the HV-10 for a week now and quickly found that it was better than the HC-3 for skydiving in every single area...until I jumped it.

1. It does not have a LANC and it does not have a little red REC light. The only way to know that you are recording is to look in the view finder and then put your helmet on. I wasted a lot of tape today waiting for greenlight.

2. It cannot handle freefall. Bottom line. Unless I have a defective model; it just cannot handle free fall. I had it setup on a sidemount L-Bracket with a camera condom.

After the 1st jump, an 4 RW jump, the jumpers in the video looked like they were standing in an earthquake. Not digital noise, not macroblocking, simply blurry vibration. I thought Canon’s Optical Image Stabilization might be the culprit, so I turned it off.

On the second jump, a 4 way freefly, the video was just as bad. For some reason the headdown portion of the jump was almost passable, but the standing, sitfly, and kneefly portions were unwatchable bad, worse than regular DV, worse than a webcam, worse than a cell phone.

For the last jump of the day, the superb staff at Skycat set me up with a Bonehead D-Box to try. I padded the HV-10 and gaffer taped most of the cracks where air could flow. After a great 2-way freefly jump, the results were the same, jittery all over.

I am not a camera expert but I believe it is a fundamental problem with the Optical Image Stabilization. Sony uses electronic image stabilization (Steadyshot) meaning the optics are solidly built and a computer figures out how to stabilize the video with software. In Optical Image Stabilization, the Canon lens system is mobile within the camera and little motors or something physically move the lens assemblies to compensate for shaking. Whether this feature is turned on or off, the optics are simply less sturdy and subject to the greater vibration of freefall. OIS is supposed to be better than EIS on the ground, but the reverse appears to be true in the sky.


Maybe one of the pros in this forum may get their hands on an HV-10 to confirm its freefall performance. Until then, I would not recommend anyone buy this cam for jumping.

I am returning the QuakeV-10 and will go back to the HC-3. I have had no vibration problems even though I’m jumping it with no box or camera condom. I would really love for someone to finally bake a d-box for it, or make a ‘magnum’ camera condom for it.

-Trevor

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I would really love for someone to finally bake a d-box for it, or make a ‘magnum’ camera condom for it.



Contact Bonehead. They are making boxes. I should have my HC3 box this week.
Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

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From the footage I saw today, I would say forget about using this camera for skydiving. The footage I saw had the camera in 2 different configurations, a camera condom and then later in a Bonehaed CF box. No matter how it was configured the image looked like an earthquake in the sky. The camera cannot handle the turbulent airflow and movments associated with freefall from what I witnessed. There is definitely something to be said for Sony quality.



LouDiamond, do you know if the stabilizer was enabled? On this sort of camcorder it's imperative to disable it for HDV, because the way the fringing and deblocking work, it looks very bad. Also, you need to be sure you're not shooting in auto modes. This camcorder cannot shoot well in auto, period. AP mode is pretty weak as well, IMO.
That said, I've shot it vs the HC3, and really prefer the HC3, even though some reviewers have picked the Canon over the Sony.

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DSE,

I shot in Manual Focus all day. I had the stabilizer engaged for the first jump and disabled for the next 5. The image was horribly jittery either way. The problem did not look electronic (no macroblocking, no digital noise) it looked mechanical, like the lens elements were freely bouncing around inside of the lens assembly. HC3 is my skydiving cam for the foreseeable future.

Trevor

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I have uploaded an example of the HC-3 and an example of the HV-10 to skydivingmovies.com. I will edit this post with a clicky when the movies are approved and posted. Until then, take my word for it- the HV-10 produced the worst skydiving images I have ever seen (and I have seen Terminal Velocity, Dropzone, and Cutaway)


the links:
HC-3: http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=4915

HV-10: http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=4916

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This is most unfortunate news.


*sigh*

Well, I guess I will be holding out on HD video for awhile then.
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

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