hand-cam advice needed

[shawnstarr 0]

i'm getting set up for tandem handcam this season.

best glove?? pros vs cons (cookie, waycool, or riggerbob)
anybody else make them?
best lens? .2, .25. or .3
do the snap on lens work or should i go for the diamond or waycool lens.

appreciate any advice from experienced T/I video jumpers out there. thanks

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'I refuse to tiptoe quitely through life
only to arrive safely at death' Anon

[linestretch 0]

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appreciate any advice from experienced T/I video jumpers out there. thanks

sure, don't go in...

my pics & stuff!

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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appreciate any advice from experienced T/I video jumpers out there. thanks

sure, don't go in...

Inappropriate response in this topical forum.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I have Rob's glove and a buddy of mine here at Raeford has the WayCool neoprene one. My glove has never turned my camera off in freefall; his has. Something to do with the way the neoprene stretches around his on/off switch during exit. I think he could fix it with a hot knife, but I was just pointing out that he has had this problem.

Fit? I like both. Mine feels a bit more like a rollerblading wrist guard than his. Neither hampers our dexterity. Both are extremely well made.

The rigger at SkyCAT looked at both of ours and made a hybrid version of his own: neoprene arm sleeve and cordura camera sleeve. He also made one very similar to mine (the one Rob makes).

Edited to add that I jump a .3 on mine, but only because that is what I already have. a .25 would be a wiser purchase choice in my opinion for handcam and "inside" AFF.

Chuck

Hope that helps,

Chuck

[flyfree2day 0]

what camera do you plan on using?

[shawnstarr 0]

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what camera do you plan on using?

I'll be using my PC9.
also, any economical lenses out there x.25 or x.20???? all i can find is cheaper x0.3 snap ons.

from what i hear the x0.3 isnt quite wide enough....?

thanks for the info y'all

------------------------------------------------
'I refuse to tiptoe quitely through life
only to arrive safely at death' Anon

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Actually, I believe most people out there doing hand cam might still be using .3 lenses since it's not been that long that .25's have been available. I get great video with a .3 in my opinion, but I would still prefer a .25 Maybe I will buy one just for shits and grins since I have the money.

Chuck

[linestretch 0]

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from what i hear the x0.3 isnt quite wide enough....?

thanks for the info y'all

yes, a .3 is just fine. The longer your arms are (no shit here), the better it will look. A short person with stubby arms won't get as much in the shot therefore a wider lens may be the ticket. And still....don't go in....or I'm gonna look up your hot girlfriend!

my pics & stuff!

[velocityphoto 0]

My buddy has the .25 and don't care to much for it because the outer image is soft .Id go with the .3 royal-lense

A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................

[shawnstarr 0]

anybody else have fuzzy edges with x.25???
these mixed opinions are confusing.

i'll either buy the cookie glove with x.3 liquid lens=us$360
or waycool glove w/ x.25black eye lens =us$435

is it worth the extra $$$ for the waycool setup???

thanks for any input

[riggerrob 558]

No fuzzy edges edges with my royal lens 0.25, however it does have a little bit of a fish-eye effect.
Their 0.3 has zero fish-eye effect.
I am still torn - on deciding whether I prefer - royal's 0.3 or their 0.25.

[clint 1]

I have different glove. One from Rigger Rob and one from my Austrailian buddy, Kieran(It's kinda like the Way Cool glove but abit different, Neoprine).

Rob's glove was made in the upright position and Kieran's glove, the camera is laying down.

I prefer Rob's because it's got the camera upright. It's looks better on video, in my opinion. I made a few modifications to Rob's glove and I really like it, very easy and I placed an altimeter directly below the .3 Royal lens. It's part of the glove. I love it now.

I am interested in seeing the .25 or .2 but it's not worth the extra $100 or so. THe .3 is perfectly fine.

-

Clint MacBeth
Skydive Moab 435 259 JUMP
M.O.A.B. Mother Of All Boogies Sept 19 - 23, 2012

[stuntquest 0]

I will give you a tip,
Leave the camera work to the outside camera flyers and the
tandem stuff to the tandem masters.
I am pretty sure there are other things you should be thinking about
at deployment height with your left hand other than trying to film
the sun (as most hand scammers do).
Ok, the gates are open, everyone now get emotional on what i said..

Rob www.stuntquest.com

Rob
Don't let your perceived ability override your actual ability
www.vortextv.com.au

[bentonu2 0]

Rob come out of the dark old days and do your self a favour by opening up your mind and climbing out of that old box, outside camera flying footage is great, hand cam footage is great, doing hand cam at dump height is not an issue or during a mal as you can still pull all handles when needed, if your got your s--t together it's all great either way you want to go. PS I've personally done over 4000+ tandem hand cam jumps and never had a problem, touch wood. cheers Brent

[stuntquest 0]

Tic Tic Tic went the Hand Scam Bomb.
How about you think of the passenger and let them have the best possible view of their jump from an outside camera flyer and not a vignette cropped wide angle view you Hand Scammers give.

For all with an OPEN mind and not a monetary one
go to www.stuntquest.com and have a look at the Hand Cam page.

Rob
Don't let your perceived ability override your actual ability
www.vortextv.com.au

[skydiveoc 0]

So...I'm sure you eat 100% organic and purchase only free trade products since your mentality is that the the consumer should have a 100% best product possible and not one made with cheap or inferior ingredients to maximize profit. Im sorry but many successful businesses have to let go of "best product possible" and go for most profitable product that still sells. It exists in your food, your beer, you toothpaste and yes your tandem video.

Your argument is the same as a Budweiser employee arguing that we should be using the best possible hops. Our customers are getting ripped off! When in fact there are many satisfied Bud drinkers as there are hand cam customers.

Yes customers have an inferior product. But then a tandem from 10.5 out of a 182 is more inferior than 15k from a CASA? Are they getting scammed then too?But...182 hand cam tandem masters are making sometimes $2500-$3000 checks so they'll stick around. DZ's are more profitable so there's more $$ for engine and equipment upgrades. While the CASA DZ is hanging on by a thread with overstaff issues and guys making $500 checks.

ancient japanes freeflyer say..."skydiver with open mind may end up with empty pocket".

[DSE 3]

OK, so I don't fly tandem, and am only a beginning level aerial videographer.
Either way, for tandems I fail to see the value in the argument.
Handcam for video purposes is a POV (Point of View) position, and has merit, IMO.
External cam provides a non-POV, and while most people prefer it, I don't know that it's "better." External cam ends when the TM dumps. Handcam can continue, and capture more of the experience.

Using both on the same jump is the best of both worlds, but I don't know that most customers would spring for both.
Stuntquest argues that handcam is useless for stills, I'm sure everyone agrees. so why argue? Unless of course, a good still cam is used in place of the video cam.

Bottom line is that the DZ needs to sell both services, and allow the customer to see the benefits of both. Handcam likely wins 80% of the time.

I guess since tandems aren't my main thing, it doesn't bother me much.

On the other side of the argument, I can't help but wonder about AFF being done with a hand cam. A lot could screw up there where the instructor needs both hands free, no?

[dragon2 0]

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External cam provides a non-POV, and while most people prefer it, I don't know that it's "better." External cam ends when the TM dumps.

It doesn't, on our DZ. Some of our cameraflyers dump high and fly a suitable canopy (ie big vengeance) so they can follow tandem up till landing.
http://www.paracentrumteuge.nl/component/option,com_weblinks/task,view/catid,48/id,48/

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[DSE 3]

Thank you for sharing that, it's a very nicely shot vid.

[chris74 0]

Hi,
Yeah very professional .
Blue skies
Chris

[Zoter 0]

Nice vid Saskia....but they dont film the full deployment shot like that....thats one of the tandem 'money shots'...no?

Filming of the canopy ride and landing is nice....alot to go wrong there though...but it looks great.

[dragon2 0]

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Nice vid Saskia....but they dont film the full deployment shot like that....thats one of the tandem 'money shots'...no?

Filming of the canopy ride and landing is nice....alot to go wrong there though...but it looks great.

If shown both kinds of vid (not all videopeople do this), the customer always wants the canopy ride included.

Some videographers complain though, since they can't/won't do this and now look "bad".

What goes wrong, usually only if the TM doesn't cooperate and floats too much or is unpredictable when coming in for landing. But most are used to this by now and cooperate fine, some TM's regularly get nice shots turning themselves around and flying backwards for a while, passengers love that

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[DSE 3]

Saskia, one thing I noticed about the vid you posted, is that it's not an actual customer vid; the exit shot, one of the deployment shots, and the landing shot are 3 different people.
So are you having the vidiot deploy before the tandem, sticking in a stock shot of deployment, and then having the vidiot fly to the tandem, completing the vid from that perspective? No way I can see that you could get all of those shots in one jump with one camera. Or if the vidiot is getting the deployment, is he tracking for a short distance, dumping, and the tandem spirals down to his level?

[dragon2 0]

This isn't a customer's vid, it's just a teaser vid on our website. Regular vids are like 8 minutes, have different songs etc. And are usually of 1 person

But yeah, it's deployment + instant pulling (no track), like in the video the part with the cloud cover, then following the tandem around. That's why you have to jump a suitable canopy. It's just 1 camera/video.

edit: here are some real videos (rough edit, no music):
http://www.paracentrumteuge.nl/realxstream/index.html

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[jimmytavino 16]

Maybe originality trumps the usual "money shot"

seems as though the deployment was documented, the viewer knows the main is opening, and then, instead of a backflying view of an inflating tandem, ( what was once money, perhaps is now mundane) instead we ( the viewer ) are treated to a sweet speed indicator, as the videoperson approaches the " the opening altitude ground fog"..... THEN the cameramans canopy opens, to complete that part of the skydive... Going immediately to the student under canopy is nice... we try to do that as well.....BUT if the cameraman burns himself outta the shot, by falling another 4 or 5 seconds,,, ONLy hard spiralling ( or a long snivel on the tandem) and appropriate main canopy compatibility will EVER allow for the close ups of the student during the descent, if at all....

yes tandem master / cameraperson coordination must be top notch,,, in order to be successfulSome front side flybys would be nice, and pre flight planning would be essential,,,even to the point of visual signals, arm waves, and other workable cues.....
The "swoop in behind/alongside the tandem" is a nice touch as well.....as the cameraman is right there, for the post jump reaction....
What the video may not have made clear, is the technique used to get or to stay above the tandem main....
I would guess that as the TM waves, and the opening sequence starts, the video guy, could do a strong backslide or side slide and once established in an air column well to the side... could toss, and hopefully get 'slider down' at close to the same moment the tandem does.
( always to the same side of the TM) upon which a few seconds could be spent in individual airspace, clearing sliders, releasing brakes, assessing location relative to the landing area, and the imagined spot... THEN the aerial ballet could begin..... If completed at a good altitude the camera person would still have the option, of spiraling down to land AHEAD of the tandem, instead of just behind...
very nice creativity.
thanks for sharing, saskia

j t