video tandems what is your priority?

[skydiverjerry 0]

ok here are multiple options for you camera guys, if you would like please explain why or why not.

the perpose of the poll is to try and convince some vidiots on the dz to do and / or not do some stuff.

so if you can spare the time please qualify your responce

blue skies and thanks for your time

life is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!.

[Zee 0]

Well, the safety of the tandem should always be your top priority - I'm sure many will argue about what is safe to do around a tandem i.e shaking hands etc.... and even the amount of experience one should have before they ever get in the same air space as one, but that's a discussion that's been had many times in this forum.

Other than that, I'd say my priorities follow the skydive. A nice close exit shot, several shots from above (not directly), below, and from the side. And then I wait for the money shot, usually below and directly in front of the tandem so you can see the funky facial expressions. Once they spaz and make faces at me I wait for the wave off and get the opening on my back either below and in front of, or from the side and on the same level as, the tandem.

I usually discuss what I'm going to do with the tandem master prior to the jump so there are no surprises. And if there is anything they don't want me to do, I don't. The TM is the guy with the passenger strapped to his belly, not me - what he says goes.

Just my 2 cents,
Z

Action©Sports

[Peej 0]

Good post Zee.

To answer Skydiver Jerry, i don't have a helluva lot of tandem camera experience, well less than 200 dives. But tandem safety and my safety are the most importnat things up there.

My TM and i have the same routine on every jump. I exit off the strut of our Porter on my back and back fly until he is through his gainer and the drogue is out. Then i transition to my belly and come in close for the face shot. Then i back off slightly and he does a few 360's. Then we let the passenger geek the camera till wave off. At which stage i back off and film the exit on my back.

If either of us has any new ideas we discuss them at length before trying them.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[rhys 0]

safety should be #1 in any skydive!

The most important thing is getting what the customer has paid thier hard earned money for....
Good Footage of them skydiving.

Far too often camera guys do what they consider to be cool. for example barrel rolls. now that may be an impressive move if you are a skydiver but it looks shit (IMO) on video. and others just sit in front hoping they don't sink out!

dress for success, have fun and your customer will too. thats my motto.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[stratostar 5]

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Far too often camera guys do what they consider to be cool. for example barrel rolls. now that may be an impressive move if you are a skydiver but it looks shit (IMO) on video.

You got that right, and have you ever seen a grandma watch'n some headdown footage of their grandchild, they try to turn upside down when looking at the tv, they don't get it & never will get it.
It should be ALL about the person paying for it and the people they will show it to, NOT about how cool of a camera flyer you are!
Seen to many of the show off flyers shooting camera these days, save that shit for your own movie.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Superfletch 1]

My priorities when filming tandem videos is the tandems safety first and foremost. If at any point during the skydive I feel like my being there jeapordises the tandem in any way then I leave. I've had to do this twice. Granted it was a long, long time ago, but I go into every jump with that same attitude.

My second priority is to keep the tandem in frame and get there fast. If at any point during the exit some separation occurs I fly up to within 6 feet of the tandem as fast as I can. That gets a good shot of the tandem flying through the air. Then I move in slowly as not to scare the tandem master or the passenger. I try to keep at least 3-4 feet of separation most of the entire dive. I used to get right in and capture their face full frame but I've come to the conclusion that the best "tandem" video is of the whole tandem flying and not just a close up of the face. Or at least that's my opinion and I've had absolutely no complaints from any customers or any of my peers... ever.

During deployment I barrel roll onto my back or drop into a sit and film the entire deployment until full inflation while keeping the tandem in frame and keeping my extremities out of frame. No one wants to see my feet during their deployment, especially if they are accidentally covering the tandem... :P

All this makes for a nice simple tandem video that the customers can share with all their friends. My customers love my work and that's what matters most to me. When I want to get "crazy" I go do that with my skydving buddies and we watch it and pat each other on the back.

Gary "Superfletch" Fletcher
D-26145; USPA Coach, IAD/I, AFF/I
Videographer/Photographer

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I have the TM fly a routine.Not only does it help with the quality of the final product but it also helps with safety because we both know what the other is going to do.My routine is something like this:

-Exit shot,not too close so as to get the plane in the shot as they are coming out
-Track up the hill right away
-Good face shot of TM and student
-TM right 360
-TM right 360 that I carve with
-Close face shot
-I go high,TM left 360,I carve to my left
-TM goes back to heading and I drop right in front of them

If all of that is done smooth and slow it should take you down to about 7 grand.At deployment I go high(about 20 ft)get the shot of them coming past me and flip to my back for the rest of the deployment(back tracking so as to get out from under them.

The tandem passenger and their family does not give a shit if you can freefly.They are paying to see their big smiling face on the video.Produce a video that is of quality and easy to watch.

I have been in the sport 8 year,I have approx. 1700 jumps and 1400-1500 of those are video.


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[davelepka 4]

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At deployment I go high(about 20 ft)get the shot of them coming past me

Fuck that jive. A dude got killed doing that last year. Use a shot that hasn't killed anyone, the customer doesn't know the difference.

For the record, the c-man in the incident had a shitload of jumps, some ratings, and everyone agreed that he was a heads-up flyer. I'm sure he thought he being safe, and that everything would be fine.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Maybe I should have added I go up about 20 ft and backslide.Flame away.


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[davelepka 4]

There's no flaming needed. You're a big boy and can make your own choices.

It's a no-penalty safety upgrade. Stay on level, or get down low on your back. It's easy.

It's not like you have an uninformed non-jumper around counting on you and the TM to watch out for them or anything....

[Fuzzy 0]

1 - Safety
This includes:
A - Knowing where to be (not be) & when
B - Knowledge of the tandem gear & harness - being able to do pin checks / gear checks and knowing what handles should be where and when on a tandem
C - Knowing that not every passanger co-operates or follows the script so knowing when back off to let the TI do his/her thing.
D - Knowing when to book on "Plan B"
E - Communication / Consistancy for the TI - the fewer suprises on both sides the better.

----Hope that makes sense----

2 - Good shots of customer
Includes good exit shot, close-up in freefall and some overall shots that include scenery, clouds, & horizon in the right orientation - (belly, sit, or backflying it should be kept simple - blue side up, green side down). I have no problem going for a handshake with the passanger, but it's always pre-arranged with the TI, and in keeping with "C"


3 - Keep It Fun
Interaction with tandem pair includes on ground & in plane (on and off camera), in freefall. It's all part of their experience. It may be your 1000th tandem vid but it's their first jump, it should be a blast and they should know you are having fun as well (that it's not just another jump for you).

4 - Having them leave with a product they, and their friends & family will think is cool. It should be something that "you & the DZO" are proud to put your name to and it should be something that will have their friends wanting to do a jump with you doing their video. We get a lot of referals from the video's.

If you have done 1 & 4 then chances are 2 & 3 happened as well.

The majority of our tandems are done from 9 grand so not a lot of time to play, but when we do get higher the same rules apply.

I always consider myself lucky in that I do both video and tandems, figure it's the best of both worlds. I can take someone for their first skydive, or look them in the eyes as they do it.

Fuzzy
Ambition / Ability: Know the difference.

[stratostar 5]

I understand what your saying, it can be done as long as you stay out of the "cone of danger" top or bottom, had the C-man in the midair been playing by the rules it wouldn't have happened,IMHO.
At deployment, only fools stay close and go above.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[PhreeZone 14]

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At deployment, only fools stay close and go above.

That and go low and directly under.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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There's no flaming needed. You're a big boy and can make your own choices.

It's a no-penalty safety upgrade. Stay on level, or get down low on your back. It's easy.

It's not like you have an uninformed non-jumper around counting on you and the TM to watch out for them or anything....

I don't see the need for the sarcasm.I am very aware of what is at stake,my responsibility and ability as a camera flier.


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[davelepka 4]

I guess my other thought about it is that you can get a better deployment shot of the student from below and off to the side. If you back off enough to make it safe, you loose the chance to get a face shot on deployment. If you get low on them, you can get the student in the foreground, with the canopy up and behind.

I'll add this - I knwow that there are alot of cool angles, and different shots to go for. However, I look at it like the passenger hired me to take pics of them making a skydive. I think the more you can show of them (as in their face) making their jump, the better.

It's easy to want to mix it up. Doing the same old thing gets boring, HOWEVER, for the passenger, making the jump is anything but 'the same old thing'.

I try to keep myself amused during the freefall. I'll slide in and get the obligatory shots, and then if the situation presents itself, move around, and see what angles look good that jump. A real heads up student lets me get some good 'standard' shots quickly, and then I get to play a little. If the student isn't looking good, I hold off on the playtime just in case they wake up, and then I'm already there, catching the moment.

But as far as pull time goes, the safest way to be as close as possible is just out of trap door range, and off to the side. It's also one of the safest places to be (provided you don't 'play' with the distances and try to get too close).

[stratostar 5]

agreed 100%, I only left it out due to the reply to " being above".

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[vdschoor 0]

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But as far as pull time goes, the safest way to be as close as possible is just out of trap door range, and off to the side. It's also one of the safest places to be (provided you don't 'play' with the distances and try to get too close).

Here's a photo of where I am during opening.. I am a bit high as well, but not high as in "you see them shooting by you" on deployment..
I found this to be a really nice shot, and it's also a pretty safe spot, cause at line stretch, they are already way above you..

During the skydive, I am all over the place after I got the standard shots required.. but never barrel rolls or anything fancy like that..

My general routine is:
- exit shot, stay as close as possible and get the airplane flying off in the background..
- close up face shot
- slide back, pop up and make a wide carve around the tandem so you get a cool view of the area and of what is really going on.. the passenger in freefall..
- back in front of the tandem and play with the passenger until 5.5 / 6
- wave good bye at them while the tandem instructor pulls and pop up a bit
- transition to a sit and film the whole opening..
- roll over and deploy

[Dokeman 0]

I usually stay right on level with the tandem during deployment just to get the "oh shit" look and then just watch the opening. On exit, I usually do rear float and try to stay as close as possible. I've seen lots of good results with people comming off head down/ on their back underneath them, so that will probably be my new exit. During freefal, I just fly around them and do whatever I think would give the best shot depending on the lighting conditions, cloud levels, the students reactions, etc. I will usually grab the students hands if they are relaxed and having fun. The ones that are scared or arent moving much, I just do what I can to get a good shot. I dont have a routine, just becuase there are several different TM's that I jump with and they all have different things they like to do. As far as some of the options of the poll safety always comes first. If the TM is strugling with a bad student, they I will keep my distance.

[jtval 0]

I have about 150 tandem vid's

my first option is safety EVEN if that means refunding the money. fortunately , I haven't had to bail on a tandem due to safety.


as far as showing off and barrel rolls and all that jazz...I leave that for fun jumps. the student is paying you for a video of THEM.
I get a nice exit shot close but not close enough to get in the way.(i could actually be a bit closer as of late)
then I let them get below me ( off the the side) so I get get the drogue toss. then I circle around and settle in front of them where I normally stay and play with them.
I.E. waving, blowing kisses, sticking fingers in ears and waving my hands etc. that usually makes them respond to me in the same manner and makes then look like they are having fun in the video.

if the opp presents itself I will circle around them again once but usually I dont. it can be boring but the student has not seen that same angle a million times...just once!

on deployment I hang out just about where Iwan is in th epicture he posted. it allows me to transition to my sit and also gives me a good shot of the "HOLY FUCK WHATS HAPPENING" face.


all is well and we get a nice landing shot and interview.

My photos

My Videos

[FlyinseivLP2 0]

Did you forget to track somewhere in there or you just dump directly under the tandem every time? People seem to think that because you open 2K below the tandem that it is ok not to track. If you do not track one day you are going to be stowing your slider when that tandem comes through your canopy at linestrech of the reserve.

[davelepka 4]

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If you do not track one day you are going to be stowing your slider when that tandem comes through your canopy at linestrech of the reserve.

Keep in mind that an off heading opening from either tandem or camera man will cancel out any sort of track.

Any tandem mal that does not involve an open canopy with a forward speed component such as a streamer, or any spinning mal, will have the tandem cutting away and opening the reserve in the same column of air that the TM and camera were just falling in. The surest way for the camera man to get out of that column is to open a canopy in the column. The forawrd speed of the canopy, in any direction, will carry the camera man away from the column. If that camera tracks away, and has a 180 off-heading, he'll be flying back into the column.

Of course, if they both have spinning mals, they'll both be in the column getting reserves open. The hope than is that the slower nature of a tandem mal, along with the RSL, will have the tandem reserve out, and providing forward movement before it makes up the altitude difference from the freefalling camera man. Addiitonally, the typically faster speeds of a solo mal., combined with the fatser opening reserves, will have the camera lower, and flying away faster.

The bottom line is that any time you have a vertical separation, you have to be extra careful. Watch the opening until the slider comes down, ensuring that the tandem has stopped. If it takes too long for the slider to come down, pay attention to where you are, and where you are going during and after your opening. Look past the canopy on opening, and try to keep visual contact with the tandem. Be ready on the rear risers to turn and avoid if need be.

There is no cookie-cutter answer to the
best' way to handle yourself after pull time. It's a dynamic situation that requires constant evaluation and action.

[skydiverjerry 0]

hi guys some real good posts thanks,

now here is my thoughts first as a tm

i want to know were the camman is on exit and what he is going to do in ff and opening.
after that he is on his own he can check his own gear and light et i have more to do on my stuff and a pax to worry about and that is way more important. in my mind you can refund a video you cant refund a life.

i follow the rules exactly priority one get out into relative wind , two get stable three deploy the drouge

no back loops no fancy stuff just pure simplicity,

next in drouge fall i do some checks turn into the sun then settle intothe skydive, i dont allow anybody to come in and play tag with the passenger i doont think its nescesary and just adds a risk that is not neaded.

as a camera man, i rear float
i never ask tell the TM to do anything diffrent, i video the exit on the same level as them throught.
next once the drouge is out i flyin smoothly and transition around with the tandem into the sun. i may if its going smooth pop back and up for an over head shot. but not essential

on opening i will back of well beyond the swing of the tandem and slightly up as the tandem opens i will sit up and watch then settle in to a back slide to clear the area, opening at 3500.

key points are that the tm is the priority i try to leave hem to do the job and deliver the fress meat to the ground unopened as it were. in my mind is the fact that they have far more to worry about than i do so thats how i work. i give them space and time to do that.

i do an interview in the plane and on the ground and if there is any playing its up to the TM to creat it as THEY / I are the ones who can read the student

SAFETY FIRST.

IMO
me?

tandems over 300 (IE)
cam well over the same amount aand im still alive.
one more thing if you want to learn video for tandem first be real god at flying formation then flying formation video in a ghost slot then tandem as an obsever without a camera, only then can you stick a helmet on.
blue skies

life is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!.

[davelepka 4]

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on opening i will back of well beyond the swing of the tandem and slightly up as the tandem opens i will sit up and watch then settle in to a back slide to clear the area, opening at 3500.

So do you turn away from the tandem before you open? If not, your backsliding away, then opening your main, and flying right back under the tandem.

[jtval 0]

I know you are asking Iwan, but my answer is that I film them opening as I transition from belly to sit to back and than I track on my back. normally before I even start tracking they are open.

My photos

My Videos

[vdschoor 0]

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Did you forget to track somewhere in there or you just dump directly under the tandem every time? People seem to think that because you open 2K below the tandem that it is ok not to track. If you do not track one day you are going to be stowing your slider when that tandem comes through your canopy at linestrech of the reserve.

I backslide a bit as I film the opening, but not a real track.

I'm with Dave on this one, once your parachute opens, you're flying out of the column of air the tandem would fall in when it has a malfunction..

Iwan