A1 vs HC3

[DSE 3]

i have two similar shots, different jumps, so they look different, of course.
http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/training/a1U.jpg

http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/training/hc3_full.jpg

HC3 is slightly less saturated in the original image. Unfortunately, I can't get a highspeed connect here in Hawaii, so I had to compress these to jpg rather than using the original png files generated by the NLE. However, they're pretty comparable to the png, so should give you an idea.
The lack of mic input and headphone output on the HC3 probably won't bother most shooters, but worth noting.
Very impressive little cam if you set it up correctly, and can push the color in post a bit.

[The111 0]

Are these framegrabs?

Weren't you just saying a few days ago the HC3 was not suitable for skydiving, for some reason or another? I take it somebody is actually jumping one now in Hawaii?

Thanks for the info...

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[DSE 3]

These are framegrabs from both cams, as indicated in the filename of the shots.
Both are my cams, had to spend a little time modifying a camera deck to accept the A1 and HC3. Then got one of the cameramen to shoot my fat ass as I was tandem under Jon Stewart for a couple of jumps. In other words, these shots are from two jumps, one with each cam.
IMO, it's a barely useable camera on the ground (remember I'm a broadcast snob) but it's very apparent that in the air, for this selective purpose, it's a MUCH better cam than I'd originally thought. Took a while to get it set up just right, but once that's done, it worked just fine, as you can see. I'd love to shoot more, but can't afford more jumps til I get finished with jump school. Unless of course, you can talk Frank/Jon/Mary at Skydive Hawaii that they should give me some free jumps because I'm a nice guy).

[The111 0]

To analyze video quality, it would be best to see video footage I'd think. If you had time, sample clips on skydivingmovies.com would be awesome (although compressing HQ footage defeats the purpose to some extent).

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These are framegrabs from both cams, as indicated in the filename of the shots.

I asked because I know some cams are capable of taking still shots, and wanted to make sure these were indeed framegrabs.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Fast 0]

The color on the A1 does look much nicer.

I would love to see the 60sec clip of both compressed as windows media hd if you can and posted to skydiving movies... if not there has to be another HD format that isn't outrageous for a 60s clip.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[DSE 3]

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To analyze video quality, it would be best to see video footage I'd think. If you had time, sample clips on skydivingmovies.com would be awesome (although compressing HQ footage defeats the purpose to some extent).

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These are framegrabs from both cams, as indicated in the filename of the shots.

I asked because I know some cams are capable of taking still shots, and wanted to make sure these were indeed framegrabs.

Nah...I figured I'd start my relationships here at dropzone by lying to people about how I acquired the footage and that I substituted stills instead of screengrabs. I mean, heck...I got my Emmy's and Grammy's by fibbing about media aquisition.
Once I get back home where there is a good internet connection, I'll post these as vid files rather than jpgs. Or if you need further evidence, I can put up a screengrab of the NLE with this footage on the timeline.
BTW, stills from these cams are not 1920 x 1080. both have spatially enhanced still features. So the stills are a different resolution. In the A1u, stills are 2200 x 1440.
Both images are jpgs DIRECTLY from the Sony Vegas timeline.
But....whatever.
Additionally, HDV (not HQ, there is no format called "HQ") is an already compressed format. In fact, ALL HD formats except the Sony HDCAM SR and Grass Valley Viperstream are compressed formats. Compressing HDV to 10Mbps is a half-quality hit, and still very broadcast-capable.

[pattersd 0]

Spot, it is incredible to see you on dropzone.com, I hope you stick around the sport and eventually get into producing some skydiving videos.
If you want to learn something about video/audio editing listen to what Douglas says. And ask him questions. when I started getting interested in video editing I came across a forum where he had the correct answer to most questions and he explained it in terms most people could understand. I attended one of his workshops on editing with Vegas and it was incredible how much information he passed on and how much of it actaully stayed with me. If he gets into producing films of skydiving I can't wait to see them.

[The111 0]

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Nah...I figured I'd start my relationships here at dropzone by lying to people about how I acquired the footage and that I substituted stills instead of screengrabs. I mean, heck...I got my Emmy's and Grammy's by fibbing about media aquisition.
Once I get back home where there is a good internet connection, I'll post these as vid files rather than jpgs. Or if you need further evidence

I don't need "evidence" - I was not accusing you of dishonesty. I think you misunderstand my intent. I needed clarification. From reading the text of your first post, I was unsure if these were framegrabs, or something different. They appeared to be framegrabs, to my amateur eye, but I figured I'd ask to make sure.

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Additionally, HDV (not HQ, there is no format called "HQ") is an already compressed format. In fact, ALL HD formats except the Sony HDCAM SR and Grass Valley Viperstream are compressed formats. Compressing HDV to 10Mbps is a half-quality hit, and still very broadcast-capable.

I was not referring to a specific format, I was just stating the obvious - that additional compression of High Quality media (it's a common acronym), of any format/type, comes at a cost.

Thank you for all the info given so far.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[DSE 3]

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Spot, it is incredible to see you on dropzone.com, I hope you stick around the sport and eventually get into producing some skydiving videos.
If you want to learn something about video/audio editing listen to what Douglas says. And ask him questions. when I started getting interested in video editing I came across a forum where he had the correct answer to most questions and he explained it in terms most people could understand. I attended one of his workshops on editing with Vegas and it was incredible how much information he passed on and how much of it actaully stayed with me. If he gets into producing films of skydiving I can't wait to see them.

Dang, if you know my nickname, I'm busted. Guess I'd better be on my best behaviour, huh? We've been renting cams and training skydivers for so long, Jodi Eldred told me at NAB "Just get up in the plane and jump, and in a while you'll be ready to shoot,..." so I did. 7 jumps in so far, and really having a blast. I hope to finish my AFF by next week. Already thinking of all the possibilities of video and skydiving.
I can't help but think that I watched one too many episodes of "Ripcord" when I was a kid. Maybe that's where the obsession comes in. Couple it with my camera/editing obsession....I hope the results are as interesting as I imagine them.

[davelepka 4]

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"Just get up in the plane and jump, and in a while you'll be ready to shoot,..." so I did. 7 jumps in so far, and really having a blast. I hope to finish my AFF by next week. Already thinking of all the possibilities of video and skydiving.

Keep in mind that 'a while' is however long it takes you to make several hundred jumps.

All of your skills with cameras and such won't help you with freefall video. Sure, you know how to turn the cameras on, what settings to use, but once you hit 'record', it's 100% skydiving skils that will get you your shot, and keep you (and everyone around you) safe.

[DSE 3]

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[quote

All of your skills with cameras and such won't help you with freefall video. Sure, you know how to turn the cameras on, what settings to use, but once you hit 'record', it's 100% skydiving skils that will get you your shot, and keep you (and everyone around you) safe.

Understood re; number of jumps, safety, and skills. I'll have to figure it out from the viewpoint of not having a VF; the biggest obvious challenge is learning how to access and control the positions required to get the shots that I want. Whether it's skydiving, scuba diving, helicopters, planes, or stationary tripod, they all require specific shooting skills that cannot be "taught" but rather must be experienced over long periods of time coupled with careful pre-planning. I don't expect to be good for a couple hundred jumps. I don't expect to be "competent" for at least a couple of years or more. I don't know if I'll ever be "exceptional." But that is the goal.

[howardwhite 4]

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Dang, if you know my nickname, I'm busted. Guess I'd better be on my best behaviour, huh?

Well, you did put your nickname in your profile...

I'm enjoying your contributions here, even though I don't understand a lot of them.

[bob.dino 0]

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Very impressive little cam if you set it up correctly, and can push the color in post a bit.

Any chance you could post the settings you use? It might help those that decide to shell out for a HC3...

[freeflyer2k 0]

Hey great posts
im convinced on getting a HC3 now
i was just geting really confused studying the difference between CCD and CMOS..

That settings advice on the HC3 would be nice?
and if you could tell us what kind of wide angle lens if any was used?
i think asking questions about settings is useless
if you are going to stick a single piece .3 wideangle on your camera anyway.

Also if you happen to know does HD remove the differences between PAL and NTSC formats
is there actually NTSC HD and PAL HD?

its about time you yanks upgraded from NeverTheSameColours anyway

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

[videointhesky 0]

Spot

Could you also post the setings that you used for the A1

[DSE 3]

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Spot

Could you also post the setings that you used for the A1

\

Color: -2
Exposure: Sand/snow
Zoom:All the way wide, and then slightly zoomed in. This not only eliminates vignetting, but also allows the sensor to see F4 or wider, which is VERY important in small chip camcorders.
Steadishot: On
The HC3 does offer a 45 degree field of view, so it *almost* eliminates the need for W/A adapter. The Sony .7 is a pretty good lens; gaff it to the cam. Be sure to gaff the previewscreen shut, with only a small 1" piece of gaffers tape, the screen still opened in flight. Oops.