Sony HDR-HC3

[RedKite 1]

I've found a wholesaler which is putting out the Sony HDR-HC3 for a very good price. Before I jump in feet first.....any negative feedback to report out there?

[ematteo 0]

care to share the price?

[paulledden 0]

£823

The probability of being observed is directly proportionate to the stupidity of your actions at the time!

[goobersnuftda 0]

That doesn't seem to be a great deal

B&H Photo Price

works out to 725 after the currancy conversion.

[paulledden 0]

This is the UK - we don't get good deals. You name it, we end up paying more for it than anyone else in europe or elsewhere!!!

I know you can buy from abroad but spending that amount of cash, I like to see the product before I pay. The wholesaler is fairly local to me and if the camera goes wrong I can 'buttonhole' him in person.

....oh sorry....you wanted the short answer!

The probability of being observed is directly proportionate to the stupidity of your actions at the time!

[DSE 3]

Wow, maybe I can offer some value to this particular forum.
I literally wrote the book on HDV, and can comment on the HC3...It's going to (most likely) give you issues due to the way the electronic stabilizer works in this camera. Even tho it's a higher cost, the A1U is being used very successfully as a helmet cam. The HC3 has a different stabilization system, and coupled with the MPEG format, likely will macroblock. Force the shutter to lock at 1/60, and let the rest be auto, and you'll be getting the best this cam can give. I have an HC3, A1U, Z1, etc, but I'm a newbie to the sport. I've edited and processed/corrected a LOT of jump footage, which has inspired me to start jumping myself, but that doesn't qualify me to talk about the cam as a helmet cam.
I'm happy to answer any HDV questions, HD questions, etc that you might have. I don't know much about jumping yet, but I know video backwards and forwards.

[skysurfcam 0]

Does the HC3 use a different system to the HC1? I know the HC1 has been used successfully.

Ta,

C.

Brother Wayward's rule of the day...
"Never ever ever go skydiving without going parachuting immediately afterwards."
100% PURE ADRENALENS

[videointhesky 0]

DSE

I have a Sony A1U for my camcorder & M10U HDV VCR. Can you recommend a HD Monitor that I can use as a travel monitor when I go to different dz's
that will work with the A1U & M10U. One that I will be able to get the full quality from the HDV and in the 23" to 26" size range.

Thanks for any help or advice

Videointhesky

[jimmytavino 16]

Quote

Wow, maybe I can offer some value to this particular forum.
I literally wrote the book on HDV, and can comment on the HC3.......
I'm happy to answer any HDV questions, HD questions, etc that you might have. I don't know much about jumping yet, but I know video backwards and forwards.

since it started, in order to learn more about that sony model. thanks for the feedback....
I've always jumped with a sony starting with
Hi-8 tr-81 went to mini dv trv7 in 1998 and made 6 or 700 jumps with a vx-1000. now i have a trv27 and so have been thinking about the hc3
I never heard of A1U or Z1..are they real costly?
Tell us more....
I think it's cool that you are are a technician first and a jumping enthusiast next, who seems inspired to skydive by what he saw at work..
Now you will learn from skydivers, and skydiving videographers will learn from you... jmy
skydive safely, skydive often, skydive with friends

[newshooter12 0]

jimmy -

from b&h...

*Sony - HVR-A1U HDV Camcorder is 2,499.95.
Less 500.00 Mfr. mail-in rebate, final cost after rebate is 1,999.95.
A1U

*Sony - HVR-Z1U 1/3-Inch 3-CCD HDV Camcorder
is 4,599.95.
Z1U

or the alternative and DSE correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the only real difference between the Z1U and the FX1... the XLR connectors on the Z1U??

*Sony HDR-FX1 HDV 1080i Video Camcorder, 12 x Optical Zoom, Color Viewfinder, 3.5" LCD Screen that you requested is $3,099.95.
FX1

matt

[jimmytavino 16]

ok... another good source for informationthanks for the links newshooter12.
j

[newshooter12 0]

your welcome jimmy... just burying my head into photo & video tech information to keep myself distracted.

[DSE 3]

There are actually nearly 50 differences between the Z1 and the FX, most are electronic and DSP. For skydiving, you'd definitely want the BlackStretch for depth of color/deeper gamma. You can somewhat approximate this in post, but not quite.
Additionally, it can shoot 50i or 60i, which is critical for film or 24p matching. JAG, NCIS, and 24 are all using the Z1 at 50i to match HDCAM output.
A1 has some benefits over Z1 for jumping; it has CMOS vs CCD. The bene is that CMOS has no smear on highlight surfaces, where CCD always displays vertical smear. If you catch the sun, highlights from rigging, helmet, water, etc, then the A1 will not smear or flare those areas.

JimmyTavino, thanks for the kind wishes. I'm very much looking forward to more jumps, owning my own rig, and being able to expand my options as a professional shooter/editor.

I'll have more jump-related info later today about the A1, I'm loaning mine to a cameraman at the local DZ to shoot me and a few other jumps today. I'll edit and post footage once I've got it.

[newshooter12 0]

wow... thanks for the good info.
but to play devil's advocate: why don't i get smearing on the 3-chip CCD cameras i shoot with at work, but my personal mini-dv camera with a CMOS chip smears all the time? to add another layer why doesn't my D70s with a CMOS sensor smear?

matt

[DSE 3]

smears? or refracts?
CMOS, by its design, shouldn't have vertical smear. CCD, due to timing, does. Anything with a lens can refract tho.
If you'd like to post a pic of what you're referring to as smear, I might have an idea as to how to help you avoid it, if it's refraction. If it's smear, it would be the first time I've seen CMOS have vertical wipe smear. Technically, it's not supposed to.
http://www.vasst.com/HDV/a1UvsZ1U.jpg shows an example of the difference.

[newshooter12 0]

well... it's definitely a smear [as in your example] on my mini-dv (SONY DCR-PC350 with what i thought was a CMOS sensor, but can't find the info online now), my work camera is a Sony PDW-510 with 16:9/4:3 Switchable Power HADª EX CCDs & it never smears, and the D70s has no smears with it's CCD.

i know what a lens flare looks like... is that close to a refract?

matt

[DSE 3]

Lens flare is an artistic form of a refraction. Refractions is light bouncing from glass to glass in the lens, and when the angle is right, the distortion caused by refraction becomes a flare. People like flares, but don't often recognize refraction for what it is.
Are you running any filters on your CCD cam glass? ie; polarizer, Sky2, etc? That can reduce or even kill smear, and of course, coated optics can help deal with smear, and then there are DSP processes that can kill smear too.

[skysurfcam 0]

Again, can you please specify what differences between the HC1 and HC3 specifically will cause the problems you suggest? The HC1 is working in the field, what at the changes that will/might cause problems on the HC3?

The AU1, FX1 and Z1U are an interation higher than most of us will look at, but the HC3 is in the affordable bracket. What exactly did they take out of the HC1 to make it unusable?

Ta.

C

Brother Wayward's rule of the day...
"Never ever ever go skydiving without going parachuting immediately afterwards."
100% PURE ADRENALENS

[DSE 3]

Quote

The AU1, FX1 and Z1U are an interation higher than most of us will look at, but the HC3 is in the affordable bracket. What exactly did they take out of the HC1 to make it unusable?

Ta.

C

They put in a MUCH smaller HAD imager, so the images are significantly softer from the start.
The stabilizer is a lesser grade stabilizer, and poor stabilization coupled with MPEG isn't a good thing. I'd highly recommend buying from a place that allows for a return. I've not jumped with one, obviously. But have ridden an ATV with one at medium speeds, and the image was all but unusable. Find an HC1 if you can.
You also might check out the new Sanyo HD1. I've not shot with it, it's MPEG 4, but by all appearances, shooting at 1080 and downconverting to 720p is beautiful.

[RedKite 1]

Hi DSE


Accepting that all cameras have their respective faults - out of ten, how big a no-no do you consider the HC3 to be for skydiving use?

(I'm trying to seperate imperfection from totally inapproprite here.)

Regards

Red Kite

[DSE 3]

See the pix I posted in another (new) thread. It's a lot better than I'd have expected. On the ground, there is a huge difference that any untrained eye can observe. On a helmet moving at super high speed, pretty hard to see a significant diff between the two. Therefore, I'll say it's totally appropriate if you don't care about audio much. Took a few tries to get it set up just right, but once done, this was a much better cam than I anticipated it would be. Go for it!

[RedKite 1]

Hey Spot

Thanks for your reply.

A lot of so-called 'experts' find it difficult to change their mind or vary their original opinion once they've given one. You obviously don't have an ego problem on that score.

You've taken some considrable trouble over this issue in doing 2 tandems(?) to compare the cameras and provide us with the visual result.

I am personally very grateful for your input and I wish you luck with your AFF when you do it. (With an open mind like yours - no problem!)

Thanks again.

Red Kite

[popsjumper 2]

Damn! Let me second RedKite...good stuff and thanks!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[machechie 0]

I'm not sure if anyone has asked this yet, but the HC3 states that it can take a still photo while shooting video. Can this still photo be taken via the remote?

[DSE 3]

Quote

I'm not sure if anyone has asked this yet, but the HC3 states that it can take a still photo while shooting video. Can this still photo be taken via the remote?

You can take a still via their IR remote, but I'm not sure if you could make a LANC that would do this for you. There is only a small advantage to actually taking a still vs extracting a still from your NLE, but if you're not using an NLE...then I guess you'd need the still, eh?