If you've been thinking about getting a 20D...

[Stumpy 256]

true - missed that!

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[peterk 0]

Just out of curiousity, what are the huge advantages to the 20D vs the Rebel XT? I've had the XT for tandem vids for about 4 months, love the light weight, fast frame rate, and the pics aren't too bad. ;) As "cheap" as the 20D is going for on some of these places, the XT is seemingly much less expensive and seems to do everything that I could ask for...

---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[goobersnuftda 0]

Here is a place to go for a size by side comparison.
Click on the picture of the camera its self for a fantastic indebth review of each one.

http://tinyurl.com/5cwek

different review
http://www.epinions.com/content_180279217796


and if you were interested in comparing the next model up 20D vs. 5D go here:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5d/

[peterk 0]

That is a great website for comparison- however, the cost is roughly $400 more, and the only advantage that I can see is that you can take 5 fps instead of 3 fps. Nobody has complained yet when I hand them a CD with 125 pics in freefall alone...

Personally, even if they were the same price, I would get the XT simply from the weight difference- 770g vs 540g.

---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[Deuce 1]

I'm waiting on the next Rebel. I can't wait until they put out a de-tuned 5D Rebel like they did when they put the XT out after the 20D.

[The111 0]

XT is smaller too (obviously), which is nice for someone new to photography like me.

Question: these cameras that have 3 (or 5) FPS capabilities... can you utilize those capabilities in freefall? I don't think I can operate a mouthswitch that many times in succession... does it operate like an automatic weapon (i.e. hold down for rapid fire?). Or do you have to set it up ahead of time on the camera to be a "rapid fire jump" and can only take successive shots for the whole jump (not to say that would be a bad thing, I guess I'm just wondering if you can alternate, during a jump, hands-free, between single shots and multiple rapid-fire shots).

Obviously, I haven't jumped a still camera yet, or used a mouthswitch. Just started video.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[peterk 0]

Well, I think after 40 jumps a week, the lighter weight will be appreciated. For sure...

As far as the machine-gun effect, it is pretty much like that. I set my XT up on medium resolution, since the large res files are huge, and most often unnecessary. But if you activate the tongue switch and hold it when the tandems start the exit count, you can keep bursting 3 fps until you flip over to open. On each tandem 125-150 pics, 200ish MB, no developing, easy cropping, no scanning to email pics to friends, etc.

One of the coolest ideas that we have been working on makes film with 1-hr photo seem silly. We have been working with WalMart's photo centers, and have the capibility to FTP transfer the pics through the wireless setup at the dz, so that by the time the customers leave the dz, and arrive at WalMart, their pics are literally developed and printed, waiting for them.

I never appreciated still cameras until I got my XT- now I'm totally addicted to stills and could just as well never take video again.

---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[sdsouthsask 0]

Quote

I never appreciated still cameras until I got my XT- now I'm totally addicted to stills and could just as well never take video again.

I have been saying this all year now that I have been doing stills.

The only thing I do slightly differently is I never change it to medium resolution. One day you will take a picture that you will really want to blow up very large and you will not have the ability.

The WalMart photo idea is great.

Mark

[peterk 0]

The odds of me taking a pic of someone else and needing to blow it up into a 4'x6' poster is pretty minimal. However, I agree with you, people should take pics of me in the highest resolution possible...

But, that never happens... The curse of the photographer...

For tandems who would otherwise have gotten a roll of film, 4.3mp is big enough and faster to transfer between loads to the CD. For BASE and funjumps with my friends, I usually go with the higher resolution.

But I still haven't heard from 20D users why it is so far superior to the XT that it overcomes the price tag and extra weight.

---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[Miami 0]

Quote

But I still haven't heard from 20D users why it is so far superior to the XT that it overcomes the price tag and extra weight.

I don't know if I would say it is far superior, but I changed my mind from the XT to the 20D for the higher frames/sec rate and the larger buffer for more pictures during a burst.

The price really wasn't that different...I found a new in box 20D with the lens I wanted for about $100 more than I was about to spend on an XT. And the 20D is less than a half pound heavier than the XT...less than the difference of going from a FTN to a FTP.
Hope this helps...

Miami

[vdschoor 0]

Quote

But I still haven't heard from 20D users why it is so far superior to the XT that it overcomes the price tag and extra weight.

For just freefall.. I can't really say there is a big selling point for the 20D. If I look at overall photography, the 20D is much nicer.
Due to its weight, it feels more balanced with bigger lenses (on the ground)
It's size: it's easier to hold than the XT (personal preference.. I didn't like the smaller form factor of the XT) and there are more custom settings that can be done on the 20D.

Overall the 20D is more camera for your money, which is the reason I went for that one instead of the XT...

I agree on not switching the filesize / quality to medium. I only do this for tandems, cause our equipment that we use had some problems with the high res. files..
For fun jumps (or jumps that are not for tandems) I use the large setting.. as big as possible, sometimes even RAW.

Iwan

[Faber 0]

Quote

whats the diff between the EF-S18-55MM lens that comes with it and the 17-85 USM IS lens?

the 17-85 has more zoom,and 1mm more wideangel,you shouldnt notice.

if you buy a kit whith the 17-85mm and want the lighter 18-55mm then im up for a deale,were you get my 18-55mm plus mony.

for skydiving i would choose 18-55mm its lighter smaller and the price is less the 17-85mm,however using the kit outside skydiving the 17-85mm will give you more work space

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[jont 0]

Quote

the 17-85 has more zoom,and 1mm more wideangel,you shouldnt notice.

true

but it also has far superior optics, hence the fact that it costs about 7 or 8 times as much as an 18-55 kit lens. It is noticeably heavier and longer, which is why some people don't like it for skydiving, but the image quality is qualatively better.

just my 2p (UK)

jon t

[goobersnuftda 0]

So much to learn. Here is the absolute best FAQ I have found on CANON specific cameras and lenses.

Part III on Lenses was most educational

[/url]http://photonotes.org/articles/beginner-faq/[url]

EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

EF-S electro focus specially for digital EOS

IS image stabilization, more usefull in lower light when slower shutter speeds are needed (think resale value)

USM ultra sonic motor, focus quickly and silently

[PhreeZone 15]

EF-S is only on the Rebel, The RebelXT and the 20D. The older 10D, D60 and D30 use the EF mount and will not hold the EF-S lenses. The new 5D, 1D- MarkII and all the full sensor cameras are only EF mount also. Good news is an EF mount lens works on an EF-S body.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

EF-S is only on the Rebel, The RebelXT and the 20D. The older 10D, D60 and D30 use the EF mount and will not hold the EF-S lenses. The new 5D, 1D- MarkII and all the full sensor cameras are only EF mount also. Good news is an EF mount lens works on an EF-S body.

I've always felt that EF-S is a temporary solution until CCD's go fullsize. I wouldn't have guessed that would happen as quickly as it did when the 5D came out... but I figured it would happen eventually.

Since I don't want to toss all my lenses when EF-S goes away, I've been smart enough to only buy EF ones.

I think avoiding EF-S whenever possible is a very smart move.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[PhreeZone 15]

Full screen CCD's have been in the 1D line since the beginning, the price just is not there for people outside Mike McGowain, Norman Kent, etc to justify the $3500-7000 price tag for a still camera. I don't consider the 5D to be jumpable by the masses. At $3500 its a hard pill to swallow for amatures when the XT is on the market for a lot less that does exactly want they need it to. If the price of a Full screen CCD ever cracks the $1000 price point then its a realistic option, but until then its not a viable solution for vast majority of the videographers out there.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Deuce 1]

Well said, Phree.

But.

Somebody, (BillVon?) remind me of the principle of technology "doubling" or something like that every six months? There's a paradigm or prediction or proverb along those lines out there.

The full-frame CCD is here. That 5D is a bargain.

Very soon, some sort of de-tuned 5D is going to show up as the next Rebel and we'll all buy it. Price point will probably be around 2 grand.

No, not all the twenty-something part-time photo jumpers will be able to afford it, but at 2 grand and the ability to use my 14 aspherical as a 14 I'm there.

Nothing is that much better than my 10D yet that I'm springing.

[bob.dino 0]

Quote

Somebody, (BillVon?) remind me of the principle of technology "doubling" or something like that every six months? There's a paradigm or prediction or proverb along those lines out there.

Moore's Law. The original prediction related to chip transistor counts doubling every 12 months. It's now commmonly used in many different computer-related areas (hard-drives, memory chips, etc) to describe the exponential growth of technology.

Bascially, if it exists and is really expensive now, it'll be cheap soon.

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

Moore's Law. The original prediction related to chip transistor...

What makes Moore's law even more appropriate here., is that when Gordon came up with it, he used as example one very specific chip transistor. Yes, he was referring to CCD's.

Quote

Basically, if it exists and is really expensive now, it'll be cheap soon.

Almost. There's two sides to it. He said a manufacturer would be able to make the same product at half the price, or a chip that's twice as big at the same price.

Both sides to that coin help us out here, immensely.

I too think there'll be a Rebel version of the 5D within a year or two. I'm not sure I'd want it, though - the 5D framerate is a bit slow, something I presume is related to writing the immensely large file to media.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Miami 0]

Quote

Full screen CCD's have been in the 1D line since the beginning, the price just is not there for people outside Mike McGowain, Norman Kent, etc to justify the $3500-7000 price tag for a still camera. I don't consider the 5D to be jumpable by the masses. At $3500 its a hard pill to swallow for amatures when the XT is on the market for a lot less that does exactly want they need it to. If the price of a Full screen CCD ever cracks the $1000 price point then its a realistic option, but until then its not a viable solution for vast majority of the videographers out there.

The seller I linked at the beginning of this thread has been selling the 5D for $2750. He hasn't had anything up for a couple weeks now so not sure if he still selling them or not though...

Miami