Ron 9 #251 August 20, 2018 mbailey465Wow. I believe reading this thread in whole would be enough for 'overly-confident-up-and-comers' to reconsider their choices and progression. Even after 1000+ HP landings it's making me reconsider my next downsize! It never is enough and it will never be enough. You could make it required reading and they will just claim they have "mad skills" and they "are better", will "be safer", and have "better advisors". Then they will insult you for trying to "hold them back". It happens so often.... I don't even try anymore."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mbailey465 1 #252 August 20, 2018 You're right, there will never be a perfect solution but I still think that educating rather than trying to control these people (having been one myself) is the most successful option. Teaching someone how to fly their current canopy faster as opposed to a downsize is the best solution. As someone told me when I wanted to get on a velo: 'You'll look cooler as the guy who can fly the f*&k out of his katana than they guy who struggles to land his velo' ...and since all I wanted was to look cool that's the advice I followed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 126 #253 August 20, 2018 (This is not aimed at you MB465) Anyone who jumps just to look cool has an ego problem. Just jumping out of plane impresses non jumpers. Other jumpers don't really give a shit. Just be comfortable with yourself and enjoy what you have achieved. Why the need to impress others? It strikes me as a lack of self assurance.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,684 #254 August 20, 2018 >Anyone who jumps just to look cool has an ego problem. Agreed. And there is a LOT of ego in skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mbailey465 1 #255 August 21, 2018 So you're just going to approach someone like this and say 'just be happy with what you have'? This thread is proof that it doesn't work. 90% of skydivers have an ego problem, if you disagree then you're probably part of the 90%! If you want to help these people you need to appeal to their 'ego problem' and teach them that only an idiot will respect someone for what they fly rather than how they fly it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Westerly 61 #256 August 21, 2018 mbailey465 If you want to help these people you need to appeal to their 'ego problem' and teach them that only an idiot will respect someone for what they fly rather than how they fly it. If even that. I know some people who can swoop a 720 in like it's their job. However, some of those guys are complete dicks and so I will never fully respect them, no matter how skilled they are. The best way to be respected is to treat others with respect. Skydiving skill means little to nothing if you're an ass to others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mbailey465 1 #257 August 21, 2018 Yeah you've got me there! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 126 #258 August 21, 2018 QuoteSo you're just going to approach someone like this and say 'just be happy with what you have'? This thread is proof that it doesn't work. Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying: "enjoy yourself, but don't fuck up doing so. Especially on my DZ. If you make me discipline you, I will. And you sure as hell won't like it". That has been very effective in keeping the dickheads in line, and uninjured. Quote90% of skydivers have an ego problem, if you disagree then you're probably part of the 90%! Horse shit! Who do you hang out with? In 44 years on DZs around the world, I've met a hell of a lot of skydivers. Very few have ego problems. Of course there are some blowhards, but most are down to earth nice people who are good to be around. Blowhards and ego trippers typically get sorted out pretty damn quick. QuoteIf you want to help these people you need to appeal to their 'ego problem' and teach them that only an idiot will respect someone for what they fly rather than how they fly it. Nah, too touchy feely for me. I don't like to waste time with idiots. And I have zero sympathy for idiots who screw up. Best way is to inform them straight up, seriously, that they need an attitude change, and if that's too difficult, find another DZ. It works.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,684 #259 August 21, 2018 QuoteIf you want to help these people you need to appeal to their 'ego problem' and teach them that only an idiot will respect someone for what they fly rather than how they fly it. I don't know if it is so much "appeal to their ego problem" - it's more "speak the language they understand." I learned this years ago when I taught two AFF classes on a weekend. On Saturday I had four Navy guys, all about 20, all piss and vinegar. The next day I had a dentist and his wife, who was a nurse. Afterwards I realized I took a totally different approach to the two classes. I said very different things to them because I wanted them to get the same message - but they had different filters, so the message got distorted. For example, for the couple, all I had to say was that you had to get a parachute above your head before you get to the ground no matter what. They filled in the gaps. For the Navy guys, it was insufficient to say that you had to get a parachute above your head before you get to the ground or you are going to die. They'd been hearing stuff like that for years, and it just didn't penetrate. So I told them that if they went in because they didn't pull, people were going to know that they went in with the reserve handle in place and untouched, and they would look like idiots. And THAT penetrated; they didn't want to look like idiots to their fellow soldiers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #260 August 21, 2018 mbailey465So you're just going to approach someone like this and say 'just be happy with what you have'? This thread is proof that it doesn't work. 90% of skydivers have an ego problem, if you disagree then you're probably part of the 90%! If you want to help these people you need to appeal to their 'ego problem' and teach them that only an idiot will respect someone for what they fly rather than how they fly it. Unfortunately the 'you'll look cool if you can land the Katana rather than stoof in the Velocity' approach doesn't typically work. Their ego will usually tell them 'well, yeah, so if I learn to land the Velocity then I'll be SUPER cool.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
