Holes cut into the ribs on my new Cobalt!

[andrewstewart 0]

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I've jumped with extremely talented skydivers with 1000's of jumps that haven't a clue what a cross port is.

NO WAY! That's impossible! Everyone knows that ALL GOOD skydivers know what a crossport is. Expert skydivers know the exact dimensions and placement of the crossports on every canopy, at least that's what I hear. Are you sure about this? Maybe it was a dream.
-
Jim

Hehehe... dude that's some funny stuff :-)

I feel vindicated :-)

[andrewstewart 0]

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You asked a question and demand a straight answer.You were asked several questions and answered with sarcasm. If you want honest advice try being honest.
Sparky

Actually, I asked a question and was given an answer straight away. It was all the superflous/antagonistic stuff afterwards that I was pointing out sucked (and that I admit I am partly to blame for).

As far as being honest goes, I was completely honest. It's up to us each individually to decide to divulge jump numbers or not. I maintain that it's irrelevent to my original question, even though those people like Aggie thought they saw a worrying situation that didn't actually exist.

And I maintain that you have utterly no clue what sarcasm means. Sorry dude.

[Islandcool 0]

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i learned about crossports after my 2nd tandem

What was this thread about again? Crossports, tandems, or free society?

I forgot

[AggieDave 6]

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even though those people like Aggie thought they saw a worrying situation that didn't actually exist.

And you know, if you hadn't been a total smart ass in answering my valid concerns, this thread would have died a very quick and silent death.


<----starting to get really annoyed.

I hate fucking attitudes.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Actually, all of you need to CTFU (Chill The Fuck Out). 400 jumps, whether you are my freind or not, does not mean that you need to be giving canopy adivce. Please leave the sarcasm, inuendo, and salty, sage advice to those of us who have lived it. Conversely: if you are a newbie to these forums who wants to avoid these confrontations, take the several minutes needed to fill out your profile to the best of your ability. Doing so will keep the "noise" down in your thread. If anyone out there has a specific reason for not posting your true profile, then feel free to PM me with your question.

Chuck Blue
D-12501

[andrewstewart 0]

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even though those people like Aggie thought they saw a worrying situation that didn't actually exist.

And you know, if you hadn't been a total smart ass in answering my valid concerns, this thread would have died a very quick and silent death.


<----starting to get really annoyed.

I hate fucking attitudes.

It's an "attitude" to choose not to divulge jump numbers? Did it not cross your mind that it's possible for someone to be perfectly accomplished as a skydiver and yet happen to not know what a cross port is? Is that an utter impossibility? Obviously not, as Hook has pointed out, and I believe he has WAY more jumps that both of us combined, since that seems to be the metric you put most weight in.

And there's no need to degenerate to the level of swearing and calling names... it doesn't look good dude.

[AggieDave 6]

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degenerate to the level of swearing

You don't know me very well. I say fuck alot.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AggieDave 6]

Chuck, quite honestly, I would hope that even someone with 10 jumps, if they saw someone with 30 jumps trying to jump a fully elliptical canopy, they would say something. That's a common sense thing, not a jump numbers thing.

That's also what I thought was going on.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Casch 0]

OMG!!! I can't believe the way people have been fighting lately. It must be nerves because of all the pain and suffering going around. I know we aren't at our best at the moment, but how about we just all Calm Down and just stop posting to this thread, it has served its purpose. Let us all have a virtual round of beers, shake hands and kick back and wait for the weekend, IT'S SO CLOSE!!!! I'm sure by monday while we will still miss our lost friends, we will be much better tempered via ALTITUDE!

CHEERS ALL!

Blue Ones

[andrewstewart 0]

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Chuck, quite honestly, I would hope that even someone with 10 jumps, if they saw someone with 30 jumps trying to jump a fully elliptical canopy, they would say something. That's a common sense thing, not a jump numbers thing.

That's also what I thought was going on.

Okay so now we're back to reasoned debate... hopefully for good.

For what it's worth, from what I've read on these forums (and I've lurked for a pretty long time), I would say that your approach is indicative of a general trend on these forums towards relating anything and everything back to jump numbers. Perhaps it's because that is the only shared metric we have? I don't know.

I'm sure you had good intentions, but a question about cross ports doesn't really have anything to do with jump numbers nor does it have anything to do with my ability to fly said canopy (actually I'm too scared to jump it now that I know it's got holes in it ;-)

I would personally have much rather asked a question, had it answered (which it was - by hook), and had that be the end of it. Inevitably though, someone (who just happend to be you in this case) came along and asked me how many jumps I had, because no one could *possibly* not know what a cross-port is! Right? But as hook has pointed out, he knows several very talented skydivers with thousands of jumps that have absolutely no idea what a cross-port is, and this validates my core point that jump numbers are not important to this discussion and yet the discussion seems to always eventually revolve around them.

I conceed that my strong anti-regulation and pro-privacy views led me to be defensive and so I had a big hand in the ensuing flame-fest. But it amazes and saddens me that so many people would criticise me for either not knowing what a cross-port is (big deal! we're all here to learn right?) or for not showing my drivers license.... sorry, jump numbers.

In my very original post I said "forgive my ignorance". Well, that would have been nice...

[andrewstewart 0]

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You will want to get your canopy inspected at regular intervals, and crossports are what riggers check out as well. In a way the ribs are already weak in that area, as a good chunk of material is missing. The edges of crossports can fray over a number of jumps and at some point repairs may become neccessary. Once the fraying becomes bad, structural integrity of the rib is compromised and tears towards the top or bottom skin can occur, leading to other damage.
Please keep asking questions and some of us will try to give you the info as best as we can. You are on the right track here.

Thanks man, this is great stuff.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

PM's answered. Once again: Chill the Fuck Out. No, you are not required to post anything in your profile which you don't want to, and nok you ought not, as a "regluar", assume anyone who does not have said information posted is a novice. Keep the questions as specific as you can and you will recieve the most straigh-forward answers. Likewise, you might find exactly the answers you are looking for by doing a search of previous posts. Believe me, there is very little you can imagine to ask that has not already passed across our screen.

Chuck

[Cornholio 0]

Oh Look!!!! SHINY THINGS!!!!!

Andrew, you must understand that the only reason why Aggie "jumped" on you was because he cares. If he didn't give a shit, or if nobody here gave a shit, your thread would be considered trolling bait and it would have died rather quickly.

The way I read this thread, was like this :
You asked a valid question, but it sounded like a newbie question and it got people thinking "Why in the world would this guy be jumping a HP canopy ?" Aggie answered and it was only out of concern that he asked. It was not meant to bash you or talk down to you. Then you got the attitiude that he was out to get you, and that simply was not the case. It's similar to someone wanting to downsize from a 190 to a 150 and asks what flat turns are. Make sense ??

Most people (IMO) would gather enough information about a canopy before purchasing it and therefore would know almost everything there is to know about one. Not only that, but I would assume that you would have jumped it a few times before purchase and then too you should have recognized the "holes" in your canopy and asked before purchasing.

Butthead: Whoa! Burritos for breakfast!
Beavis: Yeah! Yeah! Cool!
bellyflier on the dz.com hybrid record jump

[x3mcam 0]

I have to agree with most iof the concerned guys. Not knowing what the holes are and buying a Cobalt sounds like problem just waiting to happen.
No patronozing here, as long as you use your head, and ask around, it's ok.

blue ones,

Tomppa

[mjosparky 3]

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even though those people like Aggie thought they saw a worrying situation that didn't actually exist.

And you know, if you hadn't been a total smart ass in answering my valid concerns, this thread would have died a very quick and silent death.


<----starting to get really annoyed.

I hate fucking attitudes.

Dave,
Some people haven't a clue and never will. Every DZ has one or two, they sit off by themselves and jump alone. No one wants to be around them.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mofo554 0]

Totally agree with Andrew here....if he wanted his information available, he'd have made it that way. Just my 2...

[mjosparky 3]

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Totally agree with Andrew here....if he wanted his information available, he'd have made it that way. Just my 2...

I could care less about his info., it's his attitude that sucks.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Amazon 7]

SHHH he may be able to give you his personal info... but then he wold have to kill you..

Look out there 007
From her Majestys Secret Service

But seriously.. he pinged me in messages about my comment about holes in the canpopy being better than holes in the head... I think many of us are concerned about people with lack of experience hurting themselves... hell.... even experienced people bounce. He did not seem to beleive me about watching 5 freinds "go in" . with the amount of jumps I have.... only 470 or so.. If you are in this sport long enough... and go to boogies.. like I used to in the 1970's.... it happens...so I guess his attitude does play a factor. Only his experiences hold any validity. Some people seem to feel the need to feel superior. I am just someone who really hates to see fellow jumpers die needlessly.. whether I know them or not. I love jumping.. I love watching other jumping... I did not jump for a long time because of varying factors.... but now I am back and really do not need to have those feelings of watching people I jump with do things that are unsafe and get themselves killed. You end up feeling like SHIT for a long time after it happens..Its called survivor guilt...and its not fun...and I do this because damn it throwing my body out of airplanes is fun.

Amazon

[skycat 0]

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He did not seem to beleive me about watching 5 freinds "go in"

You know if he would ask around he might find out that it's becomming more and more the norm. I'm averaging 1 death and 3 severely hurt friends a year, from screwing up under a perfectly good canopy.

Severly hurt = never able to skydive again and most can't walk.

Fly it like you stole it!

[Faber 0]

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I've just received my new Cobalt in the post from Atair

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Forgive my ignorance, but why exactly?

want to buy a car of me? just dont ask why it has a spear weel in the trunk,i cant tell you..

Sorry i couldnt resist...Just cant imagine that you have just bougth a canopi you dont know S### about...

I dont know Cobalt(havent dealed whith them),but i guees thay have a web,and there migth followed instructions on how to maintain this canopi..think its stands there.
You said you have demoed one before buying it..think you should ask them if they knew there were "holes"in it..(they actualy use it in their way to sell it..)

I guess i sound like an a## to you rigth now,and i agree i havnt been nice but as Aggi said,we are the once that has to read about it,if somthing should happen.

I will not ague whith you if you should flie it or not,you and your dealr should be the once that should deside such,so im sure you can handel it the rigth way..

Lesson:know what your dealing whith before you get dirty hands..

well ill stop my rambeling here so you can get out in the blue were we all belong

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[darkvapor 0]

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Sorry i couldnt resist...Just cant imagine that you have just bougth a canopi you dont know S### about...

Yes, the same thought crossed my mind. When you get the Cobalt, and on their website, there is a warning to make sure you read the info page on their "two-stage openings." Within that page, there is several mentions of the cross ports. Does this imply that you didn't do the research on their website or even read the material that came with your canopy? If you read that material and understand the differences between the cobalt and other canopies out there, that is great. If you didn't then you are just asking for trouble. What would you have done if you jumped the cobalt without knowing anything about it? Would you have chopped it when it didnt look right after opening? That is just one issue.

Also, are you saying that in the 400+ jumps that you claim you have (by your claim that you have atleast as many jumps as Aggie), you NEVER inspected your canopy? You never laid it out and looked it over? You never watched your rigger inspect your gear either? I just find it very difficult to believe someone with that many jumps and therefore atleast several years in the sport, wouldn't know what a good canopy looked like. If you don't know what good gear looks like, how will you be able to tell when you have gear that needs to be fixed or replaced?

No, you dont NEED to know what cross ports are to survive and have fun. But I think lacking a basic understanding of the construction and design of your gear indicates a far larger problem. I am not trying to throw the blame to you, andrewstewart, but I think we need to address this problem on a larger scale. Sure, we have a larger epidemic in the sport, as the FAA would call it, controlled flight into terrain. But I think we could sure decrease the amount of cutaways and injuries if people had a solid understanding of the gear that saves their life.

edit- fixed typos

[andrewstewart 0]

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Totally agree with Andrew here....if he wanted his information available, he'd have made it that way. Just my 2...

I could care less about his info., it's his attitude that sucks.
Sparky

Why does my attitude "suck" exactly? Because I wouldn't say how many jumps I have? You are the one who seems to be antagonist here...

[andrewstewart 0]

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I've just received my new Cobalt in the post from Atair

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Forgive my ignorance, but why exactly?

want to buy a car of me? just dont ask why it has a spear weel in the trunk,i cant tell you..

Sorry i couldnt resist...Just cant imagine that you have just bougth a canopi you dont know S### about...

I dont know Cobalt(havent dealed whith them),but i guees thay have a web,and there migth followed instructions on how to maintain this canopi..think its stands there.
You said you have demoed one before buying it..think you should ask them if they knew there were "holes"in it..(they actualy use it in their way to sell it..)

I guess i sound like an a## to you rigth now,and i agree i havnt been nice but as Aggi said,we are the once that has to read about it,if somthing should happen.

I will not ague whith you if you should flie it or not,you and your dealr should be the once that should deside such,so im sure you can handel it the rigth way..

Lesson:know what your dealing whith before you get dirty hands..

well ill stop my rambeling here so you can get out in the blue were we all belong

I think it's a leap to say that if you don't know what crossports are you don't know "shit" about a canopy. As Hook has pointed out - he knows several very experienced very talented skydivers who have absolutely no clue what a cross port is.

For the record, I am well within the manufacturers wing loading and experience limits for the canopy (even Atairs, which tend to be on the aggressive side).

I just find it sad that I can have had so much vehemence directed at me for simply posting a question. If someone does or does not know what a cross port is, does that automatically make them a bad and unsafe skydiver? Is it an utter impossibility that I can be a safe skydiver without knowing what a crossport is? I've never had an injury and have plenty of people who are happy to jump with me because if anything, I always err on the SIDE of caution.

Do I wish that I hadn't posted the question and saved myself the ridicule? Of course I do. I wish I had never posted on this forum, asking what I thought was an innocent question and hoping to receive an honest reply.

- Andrew

[Jimbo 0]

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If someone does or does not know what a cross port is, does that automatically make them a bad and unsafe skydiver? Is it an utter impossibility that I can be a safe skydiver without knowing what a crossport is?

We've been over this. Of course it makes you a very bad and very unsafe skydiver. I'll bet you can't even fall stable or land on your feet. Sheesh kid, come back when you've learned everything there is to know about everything and then we'll talk.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[andrewstewart 0]

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Sorry i couldnt resist...Just cant imagine that you have just bougth a canopi you dont know S### about...

Yes, the same thought crossed my mind. When you get the Cobalt, and on their website, there is a warning to make sure you read the info page on their "two-stage openings." Within that page, there is several mentions of the cross ports. Does this imply that you didn't do the research on their website or even read the material that came with your canopy? If you read that material and understand the differences between the cobalt and other canopies out there, that is great. If you didn't then you are just asking for trouble. What would you have done if you jumped the cobalt without knowing anything about it? Would you have chopped it when it didnt look right after opening? That is just one issue.

Also, are you saying that in the 400+ jumps that you claim you have (by your claim that you have atleast as many jumps as Aggie), you NEVER inspected your canopy? You never laid it out and looked it over? You never watched your rigger inspect your gear either? I just find it very difficult to believe someone with that many jumps and therefore atleast several years in the sport, wouldn't know what a good canopy looked like. If you don't know what good gear looks like, how will you be able to tell when you have gear that needs to be fixed or replaced?

No, you dont NEED to know what cross ports are to survive and have fun. But I think lacking a basic understanding of the construction and design of your gear indicates a far larger problem. I am not trying to throw the blame to you, andrewstewart, but I think we need to address this problem on a larger scale. Sure, we have a larger epidemic in the sport, as the FAA would call it, controlled flight into terrain. But I think we could sure decrease the amount of cutaways and injuries if people had a solid understanding of the gear that saves their life.

edit- fixed typos

I already have several jumps on a Cobalt, and before I jumped it I talked to one of their sponsored jumpers.

All of the previous canopies I've jumped have been colored. The Cobalt I've just bought is White, and that's when I noticed the "holes" which of course I now know are crossports.

Am I remiss for not looking down into a cell before and seeing them? Perhaps, but I've looked over my canopy before looking for damage etc, just not looked down into a cell. (This is where someone replies and tells me I'm horrifically negligent in my approach to the sport for not doing so).

I believe I have a fair understanding of all other aspects of how a canopy is put together, or at least as much as your average joe. It just so happens I didn't know about crossports so I posted trying to find out, and now I get this. In this case, ignorance might have been bliss.