andy2 0 #1 April 23, 2003 what is the difference between a swift 5 cell reserve and a newer 7 cell reserve? Does one pack smaller/larger than the other? Easier to pack, harder to pack? Thanks. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #2 April 23, 2003 My friend has a swift, and he's been told that it'll land quite hard and it also has fly-away brakes.____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #3 April 23, 2003 5 cell technology is quite a bit older. As you would expect, a 5 cell has a much lower aspect ratio, so it's glide slope is even steeper than a 7 cell. It's pretty much one step above a round. As far as flight characteristics, I haven't been around that long to know many people who ever flew them. I'm sure there's one or two folks on the newsgroup who have, but not me. I've packed a handful of them as reserves, but not in a long while. Pack volume is probably a bit less than a comparable sized 7 cell, although I don't know for sure. Larger cell mouth, longer cord measurement, etc. The old swifts had a very interesting break-line configuration too. It was designed similar to the way big Sabres have two break-line per side. Bottom line is that it's old technology. There's a reason why they're not around anymore...there are better alternatives. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #4 April 23, 2003 Difference is that it's not worth the savings you'll get with a 5 cell. I'm very tempted not to pack the civilian versions any more. It has not come up in a few years so it hasn't been an issue. Andy I know you are trying to save money. What equipment do you have now. You weigh 125 You're a brand new jumper. cost is an issue. Is this all correct?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sid 1 #5 April 24, 2003 Quote5 cell technology is quite a bit older. As you would expect, a 5 cell has a much lower aspect ratio, so it's glide slope is even steeper than a 7 cell. It's pretty much one step above a round. Actually I'd rather jump a round. Did a few jumps on some old 5 cell's we found laying around in Fla one time and they freakin' hurt man! Save your cash and get a good reserve. pd http://www.sidsrigging.comPete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites andy2 0 #6 April 24, 2003 [QUOTE]You weigh 125 You're a brand new jumper. cost is an issue. [QUOTE] All correct. I have bought a container to fit canopies ranging from 170 to 220 in, packs reserve size ~170. Im looking for a cheapo reserve and cheapo main to jump as soon as I get my A license (i.e. as soon as I can jump rigs w/o AADs). --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #7 April 24, 2003 QuoteIm looking for a cheapo reserve and cheapo main to jump as soon as I get my A license (i.e. as soon as I can jump rigs w/o AADs). Ya know, feel free to get whatever main floats your boat, but the idea of a 'cheapo' reserve, well that kinda scares me. The reserve is your last chance, once it's out you're committed. When you're thinking about spending money on a reserve think about it for what it is, your last chance. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mickb 0 #8 April 24, 2003 QuoteMy friend has a swift, and he's been told that it'll land quite hard and it also has fly-away brakes. Thats what i was told i was also told they don't flare well either the reality is different got the chance to try one out reserve ride 3 the brakes look strange i thought at first i had lines broken. first time i had seen fly away brakes. landing was good if a little fast. got a good flare out of it as well, nice soft landing. Fear is that little darkroom where negatives are developed. Michael Pritchard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #9 April 24, 2003 "cheapo reserve and cheapo main to jump" If you have a cheapo life, buy a cheapo life saver.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #10 April 24, 2003 Back in 1986 I had a Swift system. I think it was made by Paraflite. Swift main, swift reserve, swift harness. It was the smallest, fastest, most comfortable rig on the DZ, and it landed me just fine for about 180 dives till I moved to a 7 cell Cruiselite. Back then, most people had "radical" 7 cell mains, and "conservative" round or 5 cell reserves so the idea of jumping a "conservative" 7 cell reserve instead of the "radical" 9cell crossported eliptical has not changed. It's the line of proven technology. The flyaway brakes were a good idea. If the brakline failed in use - it normally happened at the loop - and in that case your canopy would remain steerable. Age does not make parachutes deteriorate. There are newer designs, but the PD and Raven range are all "old technology" anyway - over 10 years at least. Even the Tempo is old technology. A 5 cell reserve is a big step up from a round. There is no comparison. As long as you load it low, (and at 125 lbs + gear on a 177sq ft canopy you should be doing that) I see no problem. Your quote of "cheapo" was foolish however, and people will rag you for that. As for "newer technology" ask your rigger for the melting tempreture of spectra, ask what tempreture's are generated by line on line friction and then ask him if he has it on his reserve. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #11 April 24, 2003 "The flyaway brakes were a good idea. If the brakline failed in use - it normally happened at the loop - and in that case your canopy would remain steerable. " Don't flyaway brakes also limit one possible cause of a lineover? I heard a lot of Base rigs were set up like this for that reason? No I'm not stalking you T, -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #12 April 24, 2003 Hi Nac, Not this kind of "flyaway"Base "flyaway" brakes don't limit the amount of lineover mals, but give you a means of dealing with them. The brakeline can be released, thus allowing the canopy to fly normally (if the brakeline was the lineover) Flaring is then done off the rear risers. Most Base canopies are loaded fairly low and are low aspect ratio too, so this is easier than on a VX 67, for example...t It's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites andy2 0 #13 April 24, 2003 [QUOTE]Your quote of "cheapo" was foolish however, and people will rag you for that. [/QUOTE] point taken. The thing is I have to be careful I dont spend so much money on equipment that I then have no money to spend on jump tickets. I will do everything in my power to be safe, of course, the usage of the word "cheapo" definitely doesn't portray my real attitude about skydiving. If I can't buy gear thats safe, then I will wait to skydive until I can. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #14 April 24, 2003 If the canopy is airworthy, and packed by a rigger, and correctly operated - then a 5 cell Swift reserve is safe. No point in having bullet proof gear and no jump tickets. Airworthy is your goal. Enjoy your jumps. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,116 #15 April 24, 2003 QuoteIf the canopy is airworthy, and packed by a rigger, and correctly operated What he said. I'd add that it should be appropriately sized for you (which probably falls under correctly operated). Have a great time jumping more. Make sure you learn about your particular gear. Someone who wants to tell you all about swooping a canopy won't know as much about your 5-cell. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #16 April 24, 2003 If you buy that 5-cell Swift reserve, be sure and ask an old rigger to repack it. Problem is that young riggers are no longer taught how to stow the brakes on 5-cell Swifts. Much better to ask a rigger with grey in his beard, ideally one who was rigging when the Swift was introduced in 1981. My boss recently banned round reserves from Pitt Meadows (something about a large river beside the airport), so 5-cell Swifts are the oldest reserves I will repack. The deciding factor here is how cheaply you can purchase this old gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ilse 0 #17 April 24, 2003 i had the honour to fly a swift 5 cell as a reserve. It was open in a second, fast and on-heading wich made me very happy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites andy2 0 #18 April 24, 2003 thanks for the info, guys and gals. I'll have to think a little bit more about it, I have time though, not off student status yet! --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robskydiv 0 #19 April 25, 2003 Hi Andy. I've got a Raven and it has had one Raven save. I wrote Precision about it. Actually I wrote a poem (in couplets) about the whole event but they didn't publish it. Harry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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andy2 0 #6 April 24, 2003 [QUOTE]You weigh 125 You're a brand new jumper. cost is an issue. [QUOTE] All correct. I have bought a container to fit canopies ranging from 170 to 220 in, packs reserve size ~170. Im looking for a cheapo reserve and cheapo main to jump as soon as I get my A license (i.e. as soon as I can jump rigs w/o AADs). --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #7 April 24, 2003 QuoteIm looking for a cheapo reserve and cheapo main to jump as soon as I get my A license (i.e. as soon as I can jump rigs w/o AADs). Ya know, feel free to get whatever main floats your boat, but the idea of a 'cheapo' reserve, well that kinda scares me. The reserve is your last chance, once it's out you're committed. When you're thinking about spending money on a reserve think about it for what it is, your last chance. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mickb 0 #8 April 24, 2003 QuoteMy friend has a swift, and he's been told that it'll land quite hard and it also has fly-away brakes. Thats what i was told i was also told they don't flare well either the reality is different got the chance to try one out reserve ride 3 the brakes look strange i thought at first i had lines broken. first time i had seen fly away brakes. landing was good if a little fast. got a good flare out of it as well, nice soft landing. Fear is that little darkroom where negatives are developed. Michael Pritchard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #9 April 24, 2003 "cheapo reserve and cheapo main to jump" If you have a cheapo life, buy a cheapo life saver.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #10 April 24, 2003 Back in 1986 I had a Swift system. I think it was made by Paraflite. Swift main, swift reserve, swift harness. It was the smallest, fastest, most comfortable rig on the DZ, and it landed me just fine for about 180 dives till I moved to a 7 cell Cruiselite. Back then, most people had "radical" 7 cell mains, and "conservative" round or 5 cell reserves so the idea of jumping a "conservative" 7 cell reserve instead of the "radical" 9cell crossported eliptical has not changed. It's the line of proven technology. The flyaway brakes were a good idea. If the brakline failed in use - it normally happened at the loop - and in that case your canopy would remain steerable. Age does not make parachutes deteriorate. There are newer designs, but the PD and Raven range are all "old technology" anyway - over 10 years at least. Even the Tempo is old technology. A 5 cell reserve is a big step up from a round. There is no comparison. As long as you load it low, (and at 125 lbs + gear on a 177sq ft canopy you should be doing that) I see no problem. Your quote of "cheapo" was foolish however, and people will rag you for that. As for "newer technology" ask your rigger for the melting tempreture of spectra, ask what tempreture's are generated by line on line friction and then ask him if he has it on his reserve. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #11 April 24, 2003 "The flyaway brakes were a good idea. If the brakline failed in use - it normally happened at the loop - and in that case your canopy would remain steerable. " Don't flyaway brakes also limit one possible cause of a lineover? I heard a lot of Base rigs were set up like this for that reason? No I'm not stalking you T, -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #12 April 24, 2003 Hi Nac, Not this kind of "flyaway"Base "flyaway" brakes don't limit the amount of lineover mals, but give you a means of dealing with them. The brakeline can be released, thus allowing the canopy to fly normally (if the brakeline was the lineover) Flaring is then done off the rear risers. Most Base canopies are loaded fairly low and are low aspect ratio too, so this is easier than on a VX 67, for example...t It's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #13 April 24, 2003 [QUOTE]Your quote of "cheapo" was foolish however, and people will rag you for that. [/QUOTE] point taken. The thing is I have to be careful I dont spend so much money on equipment that I then have no money to spend on jump tickets. I will do everything in my power to be safe, of course, the usage of the word "cheapo" definitely doesn't portray my real attitude about skydiving. If I can't buy gear thats safe, then I will wait to skydive until I can. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #14 April 24, 2003 If the canopy is airworthy, and packed by a rigger, and correctly operated - then a 5 cell Swift reserve is safe. No point in having bullet proof gear and no jump tickets. Airworthy is your goal. Enjoy your jumps. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,116 #15 April 24, 2003 QuoteIf the canopy is airworthy, and packed by a rigger, and correctly operated What he said. I'd add that it should be appropriately sized for you (which probably falls under correctly operated). Have a great time jumping more. Make sure you learn about your particular gear. Someone who wants to tell you all about swooping a canopy won't know as much about your 5-cell. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #16 April 24, 2003 If you buy that 5-cell Swift reserve, be sure and ask an old rigger to repack it. Problem is that young riggers are no longer taught how to stow the brakes on 5-cell Swifts. Much better to ask a rigger with grey in his beard, ideally one who was rigging when the Swift was introduced in 1981. My boss recently banned round reserves from Pitt Meadows (something about a large river beside the airport), so 5-cell Swifts are the oldest reserves I will repack. The deciding factor here is how cheaply you can purchase this old gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilse 0 #17 April 24, 2003 i had the honour to fly a swift 5 cell as a reserve. It was open in a second, fast and on-heading wich made me very happy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #18 April 24, 2003 thanks for the info, guys and gals. I'll have to think a little bit more about it, I have time though, not off student status yet! --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robskydiv 0 #19 April 25, 2003 Hi Andy. I've got a Raven and it has had one Raven save. I wrote Precision about it. Actually I wrote a poem (in couplets) about the whole event but they didn't publish it. Harry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
