Sight Question

[Dokeman 0]

I got a new rawa and need to put a sight on it. What all do i need to buy. From my understanding, i need a sight and a mount. Is that all i need or are there other parts i need to get? I was looking at the Articulated Ring Sight Mount at square1, but they also have a mounting kit. Which do i need? And then i was going to get one of those cheap orange lollipop looking sights to use untill i can get some more cash for a better one.

Paragear also has a buch of stuff too... I need someone to tell me what i need to buy

[lewmonst 0]

If you want to go real cheap, those sticker hole protectors for paper work decent on a pair of goggles.

The orange lollipop sight works fine. Brent Finley's is real nice. Nothing's perfect though, and sights can easily get knocked out of place, so whatever you rig up, you should check it daily (or before every important jump) to make sure it's still sighted in with your camera properly. After a while, you'll see right through it anyway. I forget mine's there. You can also rig up a cheap little laser to sight it yourself...

peace
lew

http://www.exitshot.com

[Dokeman 0]

Everyone that i have talked to says to get a sight to start out with and eventually you wont need it. i have seen people use the sticker trick, but i think i would be better off with an actual sight for now.

[diablopilot 2]

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Everyone that i have talked to says to get a sight to start out with and eventually you wont need it.

Bull. You may not need it for something you shoot everyday (like tandems) but you'll need it from time to time. Don't cheap out. Suck it up and buy the good stuff, you'll be happy you did. Trust me.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ltdiver 3]

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Everyone that i have talked to says to get a sight to start out with and eventually you wont need it. i have seen people use the sticker trick, but i think i would be better off with an actual sight for now.

Depends. What do you want to use your camera for? In freeflying, when you're close, a stickey circle might do. If you're doing competitions where accuracy is paramount, a ring site is a must.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[pope 0]

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Everyone that i have talked to says to get a sight to start out with and eventually you wont need it. i have seen people use the sticker trick, but i think i would be better off with an actual sight for now.

I disagree. Don't add too many things to the mix at one time! Use a goggle dot for now, get used to shooting and flying the camera(s), then, once you feel more comfortable add that gnarly snag point of a ringsight! Then your shooting will improve by leaps and bounds--safety first, right?

[AndyMan 7]

I started with the paper sticker, and it worked reasonably well - especially because I was using a freefly helmet, I just didn't see a way to rig up a proper ring-site without creating a giant HOOK snag-hazzard. I used the paper circle while I was learning the basics of camera flying.

Once I started to get paid I upgraded to a flat-top pro, one feature of which is a very low forhead section, which made making a small, minimal hazard ring-sight a possibility.

I bought a used orange lolli-pop for $20, and it does what I need it to. At some point I will upgrade to a Finlay ring-sight, but for now the cheap thing works just fine.

You do need SOME kind of sight, if you want to have any kind of success getting good video. You do not need the best and most expensive until you're at the point where you'll be refunding money if you miss "the shot".

The cheapest solution is also the safest - a paper ring, so that sounds like a real good place to start.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Dokeman 0]

ok..well i will give the sticker thing a shot and see, but i still want to get a sight so i need to know what to buy. I know its a snag point, but i can take it off when im not using it right? So what do I need to buy?

[AndyMan 7]

Keep in mind, this is not just a theoretical risk.

http://www.skydivingfatalities.info/search.asp?MinDate=12%2F14%2F1995&MaxDate=2%2F6%2F2005&Place=Lodi&State=CA&Country=&Category=&MinAge=17&MaxAge=78&UnknownAge=on&MinJumps=0&MaxJumps=15000&UnknownJumps=on&AAD=&RSL=&Description=ring+sight&DescriptionOperator=AND&Lessons=&LessonsOperator=OR

Generally, once you mount a ring sight, it's unwise to take it off as then you have to re-aim it.

What do you need to buy? Nothing. You need nothing. A paper ring would be a good start, and an inexpensive orange lolipop like the one here http://www.pia.com/skydance/accessor.htm are both reasonably good places to start.

If you do go with the ringsite, what's most important is how you mount it. I continue to see horribly ugly ring-site instalation jobs, for which there really is no excuse.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Deuce 1]

Yes, ringsite.

I see a lot of video. The ringsite will reduce your head movement, which makes for poor video. Once you have your subject centered, via the ringsite, you will use your peripheral vision more than moving your head (and camera) and make much better video that's much easier to watch.

If you ever move into photography, you just have to have one.

This picture is a full-spread background shot in this months' Parachutist. I took it with a 100mm lens from quite a ways out, which would be just about impossible with a paper dot.

The site will get you to move your head less while shooting, which is a great habit to get into. Once that habit is developed, using your peripheral vision more, you'll be moving your head less.

Brent's concentric site is best, along with the articulating site. Yes, people have hideous untrimmed sites out there. Mount it low and trim the excess from the shafts.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

You can argue all day long about what works and what does not. With todays very-wide angle lenses and solid flying skills I don't see any reason in the world why a person would need, or even want to clutter up their helmet with a ringsight for tandems and tight formations. I jump my PC 109 sidemounted on my Optik Illusion with a .3 lens. I use a "paper asshole" for tandems when I have my zoom pulled back to about .45, but don't use anything at all when I have it all the way out at .3 for other multi-person skydives. I still have a very steady head for video (after a very long hiatus from camera work) and have no problem keeping my subject perfectly in frame with a paper asshole.

I did four-way for about a decade and did four-way video to defray the cost of that habit. I jumped a top-mounted camera back then (VHS-C like everyone else back then!!) and had a Newton cross ringsight; it was fantastic. These days it amazes me how incredibly poorly thought-out some people's ringsight setups are! After Jan Davis's death, you would never catch me in a million years with anything other than a contoured mount affixed with nylon nuts. Just my opinion.

Chuck

[Deuce 1]

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I did four-way for about a decade and did four-way video to defray the cost of that habit. I jumped a top-mounted camera back then (VHS-C like everyone else back then!!Sly) and had a Newton cross ringsight

I agree with everything you say, MonoUno. Glad to hear you are flying your camera again (that nice light Illusion, huh? ) But you did get that steady head from all that four-way with the site.

What I have seen, even with folks who are jumping .3 lenses really tight, is that they look from jumper to jumper in freefall rather than framing all the other jumpers in the shot.

[NathanL100 0]

Hey, Pope...

Do any of you guys use a ringsite when you're filming base?

Base # 942
The race is long and in the end, its only with yourself.

[pope 0]

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Hey, Pope...

Do any of you guys use a ringsite when you're filming base?

I have, for sure--when there's a critical shot to get, you want to be able to frame it up as best as possible--But I don't think newer cameraflyers should just start throwing shit up on top of their head and then go learn how to fly it--they should add weight, snagpoints, complications gradually, until camera flying is second nature. Then, when they start BASE jumping, they should remove all the shit again only to add it incrementally again as they gain comfort.

...I prefer to jump without a ringsight whenever possible, ESPECIALLY in BASE. Not as much for snagpoints, but for clarity of vision. I know a guy who figured the locations of the edges for the entire frame of his camera(s) and taped off the outside edges of the frame on a Factory Diver lens. looked goofy as hell but seemed to work pretty good.

pope

[davelepka 4]

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The ringsite will reduce your head movement

The site will get you to move your head less while shooting

Care to expand on these thoughts?

My impression of a sight is that it's a simple reference tool indicating the center of your frame. Be it a sticker or a ring sight, how does it effect ones. ability to keep their head still?

Head steady-ness, as well as not looking around or at an alti, in my opinion, just takes practice.

For the record, I support the sticker route. I actually use a sharpie to draw a box on my goggles, but that can wait until your helmet is set-up, and you have a couple hundred jumps on it to make sure the box is in the right spot.

[lewmonst 0]

The closer the sight tool, be it a sticker or lollipop, is to your eye, the more margin of error there is in it. Also, if the helmet shifts slightly on your head, the sticker or goggle mark does not, adding to this error. Whereas a sight mounted to the helmet will move with the helmet. And this is where the Finley sights have an advantage over the lollipops also... I can feel and fly the air and burbles on my helmet. I let my body move and react as necessary, but keep my head and my mounted sight as dead center as much as possible. So that's why I think a good sight reduces head movement.
There is more error from Paralax so you need to be aware of that as well. Do a search, lots more info on it and a good quade post here.

In my opinion, beginning camera flyers should make dozens of jumps without any sight at all. Once they are more comfortable, try a no-profile sight like the sticker or sharpee box drawn on goggles, then maybe after 100+ camera jumps, a mounted sight as needed. I don't think you need a mounted sight to film fun jumps. And I think if you do use a mounted sight, you should not be flying inside the formation. Just my opinion.

As always, only add one little thing at a time.

peace
lew

http://www.exitshot.com

[Deuce 1]

You put the dot of the site on your subject. Once that is done, you can keep the subject centered with just your peripheral vision. You remain aware that the site is centered even when you aren't concentrating on it. Much like how you keep your car driving in the center of the lane even when you aren't concentrating fiercely looking straight forward through the windshield.

When you don't have the site to remind you of the center of your focus, you will tend to move your head and camera as you look from subject to subject.

There are probably just as many opinons about this as there are camera fliers. Mine is that conscientiously using a site is one of the things that separates people who fly with cameras on their heads from camera fliers.

It's like not using the viewfinder on your camera. Obviously you don't have to, but if you have one, you should use it to do your best to take the best pictures you can.

Come to think of it, it's like using a firearm. "Since it's a shotgun, and I'm close, I'll shoot from the hip". And you'd probably be right. But since the site is available, use it.

Or if you have a 20D, just hold the shutter down and you'll be sure to get at least one good one.

[lewmonst 0]

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Or if you have a 20D, just hold the shutter down and you'll be sure to get at least one good one.

maybe at least one, or one-hundred if you don't suck...


lew

http://www.exitshot.com

[davelepka 4]

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let my body move and react as necessary, but keep my head and my mounted sight as dead center as much as possible. So that's why I think a good sight reduces head movement.

This makes sense if your helmet is moving in relation to your goggles. Yes, in that case a helmet mounted sight would be better, as it would 'notify' you of the hemets movements. The caveat to that is that a canera helmet that moves on your head has bigger rpoblems than what type of sight you are using.

I learned how to do video with a Newton cross-sight, and after the first 500 jumps was convinced that a ring sight was a must. Than the side-mount mini DV cams came out, and I strapped one to a Gath helmet, with a dot on my goggles, and haven't looked back.

I agree, in certain circumstances (300 ways) a ring sight might be a good idea. However, for the casual camera flyer, it's extra stuff they don't need. Keep things as simple as possible, and then take off half the stuff you have left. Less to break, malfunction, snag or loose.