chuckakers 370 #26 September 4, 2016 mjosparky***Your profile doesn't say where you are from. In the US there are restrictions on who can do intentional cutaways and how they must be done. 1. USPA Basic Safety Requirements require a jumper to hold at least a C license to make an intentional cutaway. 2. FAA regulations require a third parachute (reserve) that is a attached to a TSO'd rig to be worn for intentional cutaway jumps. 3. Some reserve canopy manufacturers have limits on jumping reserves as mains before the reserve is no longer a TSO'd reserve. I don't know of any FAR or USPA BSR that address' intentional cutaways. I done several TSO that require you to cutaway and I always wore a separate harness and reaserve. But even in the test standards (PIA-135) wearing a second reserve is not mentioned. Could you post where you saw this? Thanks Now that you mention it, I don't recall ever seeing anything covering it specifically either. My understanding has always been that if a jumper intends to use the reserve parachute it then not considered an *auxiliary* parachute as required by FAR's and a second reserve is then require, but you make a good point. I will shoot a message to USPA HQ and see if this is actually covered.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,047 #27 September 5, 2016 Hi Chuck, QuoteI will shoot a message to USPA HQ and see if this is actually covered. Based upon my previous dealings with them on stuff like, IMO don't waste your time. The TSO standards ( all of them ) say that you have to do a number of live jumps. They all also say that an auxiliary parachute 'may' be attached to the harness; not req'd. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #28 September 5, 2016 mjosparky***Your profile doesn't say where you are from. In the US there are restrictions on who can do intentional cutaways and how they must be done. 1. USPA Basic Safety Requirements require a jumper to hold at least a C license to make an intentional cutaway. 2. FAA regulations require a third parachute (reserve) that is a attached to a TSO'd rig to be worn for intentional cutaway jumps. 3. Some reserve canopy manufacturers have limits on jumping reserves as mains before the reserve is no longer a TSO'd reserve. I don't know of any FAR or USPA BSR that address' intentional cutaways. I done several TSO that require you to cutaway and I always wore a separate harness and reaserve. But even in the test standards (PIA-135) wearing a second reserve is not mentioned. Could you post where you saw this? Thanks I learn something new everyday. I was told early in my skydiving career that a third auxiliary parachute was required for intentional cutaways, but after being unable to find anything in the regs I asked Jump Crouch, Director of Safety & Training at HQ for his input. He also did some homework to be sure he gave me the right answer and confirmed that there is nothing in writing that requires it. Sooooo....chop away!Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mxk 1 #29 September 5, 2016 chuckakers******Your profile doesn't say where you are from. In the US there are restrictions on who can do intentional cutaways and how they must be done. 1. USPA Basic Safety Requirements require a jumper to hold at least a C license to make an intentional cutaway. 2. FAA regulations require a third parachute (reserve) that is a attached to a TSO'd rig to be worn for intentional cutaway jumps. 3. Some reserve canopy manufacturers have limits on jumping reserves as mains before the reserve is no longer a TSO'd reserve. I don't know of any FAR or USPA BSR that address' intentional cutaways. I done several TSO that require you to cutaway and I always wore a separate harness and reaserve. But even in the test standards (PIA-135) wearing a second reserve is not mentioned. Could you post where you saw this? Thanks I learn something new everyday. I was told early in my skydiving career that a third auxiliary parachute was required for intentional cutaways, but after being unable to find anything in the regs I asked Jump Crouch, Director of Safety & Training at HQ for his input. He also did some homework to be sure he gave me the right answer and confirmed that there is nothing in writing that requires it. Sooooo....chop away! It can probably be argued either way. A reserve is defined as "an approved parachute worn for emergency use to be activated only upon failure of the main parachute or in any other emergency where use of the main parachute is impractical or use of the main parachute would increase risk." If you're intending to use your reserve, then you might need another one to satisfy that definition for 105.43 ("No person may conduct a parachute operation using a single-harness, dual-parachute system... unless that system has at least one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute..."). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #30 September 6, 2016 mxk*********Your profile doesn't say where you are from. In the US there are restrictions on who can do intentional cutaways and how they must be done. 1. USPA Basic Safety Requirements require a jumper to hold at least a C license to make an intentional cutaway. 2. FAA regulations require a third parachute (reserve) that is a attached to a TSO'd rig to be worn for intentional cutaway jumps. 3. Some reserve canopy manufacturers have limits on jumping reserves as mains before the reserve is no longer a TSO'd reserve. I don't know of any FAR or USPA BSR that address' intentional cutaways. I done several TSO that require you to cutaway and I always wore a separate harness and reaserve. But even in the test standards (PIA-135) wearing a second reserve is not mentioned. Could you post where you saw this? Thanks I learn something new everyday. I was told early in my skydiving career that a third auxiliary parachute was required for intentional cutaways, but after being unable to find anything in the regs I asked Jump Crouch, Director of Safety & Training at HQ for his input. He also did some homework to be sure he gave me the right answer and confirmed that there is nothing in writing that requires it. Sooooo....chop away! It can probably be argued either way. A reserve is defined as "an approved parachute worn for emergency use to be activated only upon failure of the main parachute or in any other emergency where use of the main parachute is impractical or use of the main parachute would increase risk." If you're intending to use your reserve, then you might need another one to satisfy that definition for 105.43 ("No person may conduct a parachute operation using a single-harness, dual-parachute system... unless that system has at least one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute..."). Where did you get that quote? If it's FAA documentation that changes the entire argument.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mxk 1 #31 September 6, 2016 chuckakers************Your profile doesn't say where you are from. In the US there are restrictions on who can do intentional cutaways and how they must be done. 1. USPA Basic Safety Requirements require a jumper to hold at least a C license to make an intentional cutaway. 2. FAA regulations require a third parachute (reserve) that is a attached to a TSO'd rig to be worn for intentional cutaway jumps. 3. Some reserve canopy manufacturers have limits on jumping reserves as mains before the reserve is no longer a TSO'd reserve. I don't know of any FAR or USPA BSR that address' intentional cutaways. I done several TSO that require you to cutaway and I always wore a separate harness and reaserve. But even in the test standards (PIA-135) wearing a second reserve is not mentioned. Could you post where you saw this? Thanks I learn something new everyday. I was told early in my skydiving career that a third auxiliary parachute was required for intentional cutaways, but after being unable to find anything in the regs I asked Jump Crouch, Director of Safety & Training at HQ for his input. He also did some homework to be sure he gave me the right answer and confirmed that there is nothing in writing that requires it. Sooooo....chop away! It can probably be argued either way. A reserve is defined as "an approved parachute worn for emergency use to be activated only upon failure of the main parachute or in any other emergency where use of the main parachute is impractical or use of the main parachute would increase risk." If you're intending to use your reserve, then you might need another one to satisfy that definition for 105.43 ("No person may conduct a parachute operation using a single-harness, dual-parachute system... unless that system has at least one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute..."). Where did you get that quote? If it's FAA documentation that changes the entire argument. 105.3 Definitions Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #32 September 6, 2016 mxk***************Your profile doesn't say where you are from. In the US there are restrictions on who can do intentional cutaways and how they must be done. 1. USPA Basic Safety Requirements require a jumper to hold at least a C license to make an intentional cutaway. 2. FAA regulations require a third parachute (reserve) that is a attached to a TSO'd rig to be worn for intentional cutaway jumps. 3. Some reserve canopy manufacturers have limits on jumping reserves as mains before the reserve is no longer a TSO'd reserve. I don't know of any FAR or USPA BSR that address' intentional cutaways. I done several TSO that require you to cutaway and I always wore a separate harness and reaserve. But even in the test standards (PIA-135) wearing a second reserve is not mentioned. Could you post where you saw this? Thanks I learn something new everyday. I was told early in my skydiving career that a third auxiliary parachute was required for intentional cutaways, but after being unable to find anything in the regs I asked Jump Crouch, Director of Safety & Training at HQ for his input. He also did some homework to be sure he gave me the right answer and confirmed that there is nothing in writing that requires it. Sooooo....chop away! It can probably be argued either way. A reserve is defined as "an approved parachute worn for emergency use to be activated only upon failure of the main parachute or in any other emergency where use of the main parachute is impractical or use of the main parachute would increase risk." If you're intending to use your reserve, then you might need another one to satisfy that definition for 105.43 ("No person may conduct a parachute operation using a single-harness, dual-parachute system... unless that system has at least one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute..."). Where did you get that quote? If it's FAA documentation that changes the entire argument. 105.3 Definitions As read that I don't see that this could go either way. The FAR states "Reserve parachute means an approved parachute worn for emergency use to be activated only upon failure of the main parachute or in any other emergency where use of the main parachute is impractical or use of the main parachute would increase risk." Seems pretty clear to me that if a jumper plans to use the reserve after an intentional cutaway (meaning it then becomes the "main") they are required to have another auxiliary parachute that is only intended as a true reserve.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #33 September 6, 2016 I have also heard of one situation where someone wore a second harness with a ram-air reserve... Bottom line was a two out (one front, one back) flying opposite directions with his body being the attach point between the two systems... NOT Fun. Other tersh systems have proven to have their own unique failure modes (sometimes with fatal results). If you plan to setup a rig for this, definately work with an experienced rigger and consider all possible situations, including out-of-sequence, and how they might devolve. I've had two rigs setup, and its alot of fun, but it is NOT just another skydive. And planning to use your last canopy in a non-emergency... not my idea of smart whether legal or not. JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #34 September 6, 2016 fcajump I have also heard of one situation where someone wore a second harness with a ram-air reserve... Bottom line was a two out (one front, one back) flying opposite directions with his body being the attach point between the two systems... NOT Fun. If I remember correctly, that jump was supposed to be a funjump, an intentional personal downplane. Now I've been in my own personal downplane (not on purpose, duh) and in 2-person ones (very much on purpose ), but a downplane with 2 rigs I would very much avoid . 2 harnesses pulling in 2 different directions sounds painful. If I also remember correctly that jump almost killed him, by choking. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #35 September 6, 2016 dragon2 ***I have also heard of one situation where someone wore a second harness with a ram-air reserve... Bottom line was a two out (one front, one back) flying opposite directions with his body being the attach point between the two systems... NOT Fun. If I remember correctly, that jump was supposed to be a funjump, an intentional personal downplane. Now I've been in my own personal downplane (not on purpose, duh) and in 2-person ones (very much on purpose ), but a downplane with 2 rigs I would very much avoid . 2 harnesses pulling in 2 different directions sounds painful. If I also remember correctly that jump almost killed him, by choking. Through the fog of memory, that shoulds about right. Most of what we (individually) think up to try has already been tried before... not always with the best of consequences...Always remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
husslr187 24 #36 September 9, 2016 Link is to a picture I took of my 14/15 SIM book page 164. It is of the exhibition jump section and it is very clear that intentional cutaways requires a third canopy to stay within the rules. http://i.imgur.com/7POhoev.jpg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justme12001 0 #37 September 12, 2016 That is for a demo, not a normal skydive. I've never read anywhere that you have to have a third canopy if you intend to cutaway. Is it the smartest thing, probably not... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
husslr187 24 #38 September 12, 2016 justme12001That is for a demo, not a normal skydive. I've never read anywhere that you have to have a third canopy if you intend to cutaway. Is it the smartest thing, probably not... Yes I understand that, but they are calling the second canopy/reserve a main. Which means the third canopy is their reserve. The idea behind a reserve is to not have to use it unless necessary, whether it's parachutes, military troops, or food supply. If you plan to use it, it is no longer under reserve status. Edited to add: basically I'm saying if you intend to cutaway without a third parachute or plan to use your "reserve", it is no longer a reserve and would be in violation of FAR if you jump without a third parachute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyBoulder 1 #39 September 13, 2016 ILUVCHUTERSWe get our newbies to pull their reserve handles at repack time - on the ground. I have two rigs and pull the handles before every repack. I think it's a good idea for any level. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
