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Amster_damnit

Intentional Reserve Rides

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Hello all,

As a self proclaimed newbie, I have a question for the group because almost all of you have far far more jumps than I.

Here is the skinny; I am coming up on my first reserve repack and I am wondering if it is normal to intentionally take a reserve ride before handing it over to the rigger. Logically I feel as if it is a good way to get practice on a canopy that presumably flys fairly different than my main, in a non-emergent situation.

Can anyone shed some wisdom on the subject?

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You will find yourself with some very angry people at your dropzone, and probably grounded. This would be violating an FAR, which could impose fines. Contact your reserve manufacturer, and ask to demo your reserve canopy. They will send you your model reserve hooked up as a main for a modest fee. Or you can wait for a boogie, where you can probably do it for free.
Blue skies

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We get our newbies to pull their reserve handles at repack time - on the ground. This helps them see the force/finesse needed to pull the handle. It's not exactly the same of course, but it does open some eyes. Ask your rigger if you can pull your reserve handle at repack time.

You never want to get rid of a perfectly good canopy for no reason without another back up - i.e. third parachute. As someone stated above me, that would get you grounded at my DZ too probably. Remember - the reserve is not perfect either, and to get rid of a perfectly good main and end up with a malfunctioning reserve would be a bad day indeed.

Your reserve won't be "that" different from your main, generally speaking. I have four reserve rides and each time I was so excited about the reserve ride I didn't notice a real difference in how the parachute flies - they are different, but you'll have other things on your mind than "huh. what an odd glide ratio this parachute has..." When you do have your first reserve ride, practice your flare (if you have time of course) and just be prepared to PLF on landing.

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Your profile doesn't say where you are from. In the US there are restrictions on who can do intentional cutaways and how they must be done.

1. USPA Basic Safety Requirements require a jumper to hold at least a C license to make an intentional cutaway.

2. FAA regulations require a third parachute (reserve) that is a attached to a TSO'd rig to be worn for intentional cutaway jumps.

3. Some reserve canopy manufacturers have limits on jumping reserves as mains before the reserve is no longer a TSO'd reserve.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Good point! Canada has slightly different requirements:

"CSPA Registered Participants may perform in air practice of intentional cutaways, provided they hold a CSPA A CoP or higher and have completed at least 50 jumps in the past 12 months and have completed an Emergency Procedures Review no more than 30 days prior to the intentional cutaway. A second reserve parachute, with no pilot chute installed, (a tertiary system with meshed modifications if using a ram-air reserve) must be worn on a single harness which has correctly installed D-rings on the main lift web. The procedure for manual reserve deployment
must have been practiced..."

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Rylan

You will find yourself with some very angry people at your dropzone, and probably grounded. This would be violating an FAR, which could impose fines. Contact your reserve manufacturer, and ask to demo your reserve canopy. They will send you your model reserve hooked up as a main for a modest fee. Or you can wait for a boogie, where you can probably do it for free.



People have gotten grounded for intentionally cutting away their main. I knew one guy who did it and he didn't care what the S&TA said. He didn't stay in the sport for too long. Had a lot of natural free flying ability but was cocky and arrogant as well. Alienated a lot of the established jumpers.

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Once upon a time, there was a skydiver who cutaway each time he needed a reserve re-pack. That worked until it didn't. The reserve is a last chance; not a testing parachute. You can rent a tertiary system to practice or as said above... go to a boogie and they'll hook a reserve up to your system to test jump.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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chuckakers

Your profile doesn't say where you are from. In the US there are restrictions on who can do intentional cutaways and how they must be done.

1. USPA Basic Safety Requirements require a jumper to hold at least a C license to make an intentional cutaway.

2. FAA regulations require a third parachute (reserve) that is a attached to a TSO'd rig to be worn for intentional cutaway jumps.

3. Some reserve canopy manufacturers have limits on jumping reserves as mains before the reserve is no longer a TSO'd reserve.



I don't know of any FAR or USPA BSR that address' intentional cutaways. I done several TSO that require you to cutaway and I always wore a separate harness and reaserve. But even in the test standards (PIA-135) wearing a second reserve is not mentioned. Could you post where you saw this? Thanks
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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Used to be a requirement for a D licence that you had to have had a cutaway. If you hadn't had one for real, you had to do an intentional. Most people didn't get to that level without a real chop.

The exercise was more to do with actually experiencing a cutaway in the air rather than the reserve ride. (Riding a round reserve is not that big a thrill).

We had a rig that could take two mains, with two sets of capewells, and a normal front mounted reserve.

Normal practice was to static line the first canopy so you didn't have to worry about a ripcord in your hand, exit higher than normal, then chop that canopy. It became a normal jump at that point.

It was a good rig to test canopies, I did several on damaged canopies to see how they would behave, and it was great for demo jumps.

I did a dozen or so demos with cutaways, which always went down well with the crowd, who prolly thought I was really brave (more likely crazy), but in reality it was no big deal at all. I'm not that fussed about putting my life on the line.

You could prolly make up a similar system with an old tandem rig.

Riggers....over to you.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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Are you Dutch?

If so, rules here say you cannot do a jump where you pre-plan to use your reserve without a third parachute.

I did 2 intentional cutaway jumps myself, because I had a reserve malfunction once (closed end cell which I ended up having to land, broke my nose) and my rigger suggested doing a intentional cutaway jump when my next repack was coming up. It had to be a cutaway as we were going for a low-speed 'mal' situation like my previous reserve ride.

I had to pay for the repack of a round reserve which I wore on a second harness, and I paid the jump for another jumper to follow my main and freebag.

Got a briefing on how to use it if needed (very very important if you have never jumped 2 rounds, like me) and was very glad my reserve opened 100% :)
The second harness was a) not padded so presumably quite painful to hang in and b) I would be hanging from my belly so would have to 'swim' through the lines and get myself upright that way.

PLFing was also different with that large belly thing in the way, so I practiced that on the ground too before jumping.


All in all, a fairly technical and quite expensive jump, however my reserve opened fine that time so all was well.

The 2nd intentional I did later was just for fun.

Neither was to experience a cutaway or flying a reserve! I already had 3 'real' reserve rides at that point.

Usually riggers (at least mine) prefer to pull-rest your handles themselves, as part of the reserve repack. You can also ask to pull the handles yourself, in their presence. I also on occasion have let junior jumpers pull my handles when it was time for my repack.

All in all, for a newbie, it seems to me like too technical a jump, perhaps too pricey, and certainly not 'necessary'.
You could ask your rigger if it's OK to pull them yourself in his/her loft, though.

To practice flying a reserve, get a demo reserve canopy from PD or other manufacturer and do a coupe of jumps on that.


ciel bleu,
Saskia

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i would like to add that youre risking losing your handle(s) and freebag and also risking snags and other issues with your reserve... its delicate compared to your main. if you snag f-111 or heaven forbid lowbulk on some weeds or scrub, it can snag and its not pretty. Now back to the manufacturer for repair.... reserves cant be packed unless they are 100% health... so youre risking a lot just whipping out your reserve... when shit hits the fan, its about saving yourself and whatever happens happens, but youre going to be a little less sour about a lost handle or freebag since you just saved your own life. but waiting up to 2 months for handle and freebag replacements suck ass for just some fun....
I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof...

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riggerrob

A challenge is finding a round reserve packed into a chest container, then you need to add D-Rings to your harness, etc.

An even bigger challenge is finding an instructor who can teach you how to deploy a chest-mounted reserve.



Never having jumped rounds at all, the first briefing I got was: If you are under a spinning reserve and can't fix it, throw the belly reserve against the direction you are spinning.

Another instructor intervened very quickly after that...

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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AFAIK Strong makes a system (called Tri or something similar I think) specifically for cutaway training, since TI course retains the "must've had a cutaway" requirement.
"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

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Pretty sure it called a " tridem" but I may be misspelling it. Looks a lot like a tandem rig. But with 3 containers stacked on top of each other.
i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .


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Yes, Strong Enterprises still requires on reserve ride before a tandem instructor certification course.
If a TI candidate has suffered no malfunctions during his/her first 500 jumps, then I strap an chest-mounted reserve on them and brief them on intentional cutaways.

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mathrick

How do you make their regular reserve cut-able?



You don't normally have a choppable reserve unless you have a specially set up rig.

Your tertiary reserve would be a round with no pilot chute, which you hand deploy yourself. Hang glider pilots carry this type of system, with slight variations..

That's how it used to be done back in the day when people jumped cheapos...interesting when dealing with a total. Not so good with a spinning mal.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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Ah, I see, the old one still surviving in "if in doubt, whip it out". I believe even under rounds you could get into spinning situations in which care was required to pick the right direction to throw it out?
"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

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mathrick

Ah, I see, the old one still surviving in "if in doubt, whip it out". I believe even under rounds you could get into spinning situations in which care was required to pick the right direction to throw it out?



There s a world of difference between a spinning roundie and a spinning square. But yes, you had to figure out the direction of the spin.

A spin under a roundie would prolly be regarded as a gentle turn under a square these days.

They spun up a bit faster when military surplus rounds were replaced by sport rounds. That's when cutting away and pilot chutes on reserves came into fashion.

In the early days of squares only the most experienced were allowed to jump a square for that reason.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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