Soft Cut Away Housing!! So What!!!

[scottjaco 0]

I just bought a used '94 Talon. I'm pretty
happy with it......
One jumpmaster suggested I get the hard cut away housings.

I did some research and I really don't want to bother because the soft housings look neater and less bulky...

I've been reading all the threads on this website and people seem to think they are some kind of death trap!

I'm a novice skydiver but that seems a bit harsh...

I spoke with Brenda at Rigging Innovations and she said "if you're happy with it, don't bother" (tearing apart you're rig to fit the larger metal housings)....

She suggested that I suspend the risers and do some practice cut aways on the ground.....

I did this and the cables slide out quite nicely...
they don't catch on anything and there is pleanty of slack in the housings...even when the risers are pulled tightly above my head.

After reading about the so called problems....I can only guess that either the cut away cables were not routed properly around the neck, (my talon has a channel through the reserve flap for this..) if you don't know it's there, you could miss it.

Or...maybe the hard cut away was because of massive line twists that were pinching the cut away channels ON THE RISERS?... (In which case you would have a hard cut away regardless of what kind of housing you have on the rig!)

It sounds like it would be better to spend money on having hard housings installed on the risers....where the pinching would take place during a malfunction.

What malfunction exists that would pinch the soft cut away housing on the rig itself? (between the handle and the 3-ring?)

If it ain't broke... Don't fix it....

I'm told that Talons have better soft housing than the Javalins becuse they use Kevlar in thier housings.

Maybe some more experienced skydivers/riggers could give me some more insight into this subject.

Thanks,
Scott Jaco

[Viking 0]

ever had a line twist all the way down your risers?

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[scottjaco 0]

yep, I have...what is you're point? like I said before..
how does that pinch the housings which start beneath the 3-ring?

scott

[Hooknswoop 19]

Generally, when a piece of gear get a bad reputation, it is because of accidents it contributed to. Soft housings are no longer offered as an option. I recently was able to pick up a soft-housings-equipped rig by the cutaway handle. The main wasn't in it and the Velcro on the handle had been peeled. It wasn't a small rig either. The jumper was unable to cutaway his main, after landing, in high winds. He is a fire-fighter, and not a small guy. The cables were correctly routed. We removed the soft housings from both his rigs and replaced them with hard housings. Another jumper, after seeing this, ordered the kit for both of his rigs, and we replaced one set, but haven't gotten to the other set yet. He doesn't have a main for the other rig, so it isn't a huge priority. Neither jumper thought their soft housings would be a problem. One discovered it on the ground and only got drug a little for the cost of the lesson and the other learned from the first. Discovering the soft housings are not a good idea at 1,200 feet with a malfunction main above you is going to bring a high cost for the lesson. Take the cheap lesson and learn from others. Get hard housings and capped, metal inserts for your risers. Stack the odds in your favor. "look neater and less bulky" is not a good argument in favor of soft housings.

Hook

[ZigZag 0]

[scottjaco 0]

trimming the cut away cables?

I noticed that the right riser releases about 1 1/2 inches before the left riser releases! should the left cut away cable be trimmed a bit?

Thanks,
Scott

[ZigZag 0]

Edit: Trim the cables after you've done the retrofit. If you decide to stay with the soft housings the cables should be fine.

[Craig 0]

As far as if it aint broke don't fix it I have not seen this much, if at all really. You see most improvments dealing with safety and user/rigger friendliness. Look at reserves, they are your last chance and they are old technology. Sure they have made some more stronger but they are still 7-cell F-111 (some with a ZP top skin only) canopies. Neater is not always better in some cases. Reversed (integrity) risers looked "cool" and were supposed to prevent riser breakage but in some cases they would not release when you pulled the cutaway. Jumpers are often discouraged from using the these days.

[Craig 0]

Quote

trimming the cut away cables?

I noticed that the right riser releases about 1 1/2 inches before the left riser releases! should the left cut away cable be trimmed a bit?

Thanks,
Scott

Probibally not a good idea, it is like that for a reason.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

I noticed that the right riser releases about 1 1/2 inches before the left riser releases! should the left cut away cable be trimmed a bit?

The measure ment should be taken with the rig being worn and tension on the risers, preferably suspended. The risers w/o the RSL should release before the riser with the RSL.

Hook

[ZigZag 0]

[hookitt 0]

No insight, just a personal experience. Bewarned, there is a run on sentence in there, so take a deep breath if you're reading out loud.

Being that I owned the very setup you describe, and have worked on many, I wouldn't give that set up to anyone. One fine sunny afternoon just after I tossed my pilot chute, I ended up on my back spiraling to the ground, looking at the peeled cutaway handle that was in BOTH my hands as I pushed and pushed with all my might so the darn Main parachute would just go away, I found it was time to replace the soft housings, and bypass that lovely plastic *U*shaped cable housing altogether. The end result was that I was able to cutaway, and it actually hurt me from using every ounce of survival instinct adrenalized strength I could muster.

Nary a trouble since.

To put it another way.. it SUCKED!! I can think of a few things that scared me in my skydiving career and that has to be Tops. Not-able-to-cut-away.....think about it.
-
Facts:
A couple line twists (unsure if the risers were twisted up)with one brake unstowed. No Riser inserts. Soft Housing like you described, properly routed.Factory Integrity risers.
-------

I have worked on many of these rigs, and have found it difficult on occasion to extract the cutaway handle after a repack cycle. Owners and you are probably included in this, tend to not perform any maintainance ....EVER.

I will reitterate hooks statement.

"Get hard housings and capped, metal inserts for your risers. Stack the odds in your favor. "look neater and less bulky" is not a good argument in favor of soft housings."

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[scottjaco 0]

yep, the RSL is on my Left riser, why is it that the RSL riser should release after the right riser?

scott

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

yep, the RSL is on my Left riser, why is it that the RSL riser should release after the right riser?

In the event that the cutaway handle was pulled just far enough to release only one riser and that riser had the RSL on it, there is a good chance for a main-reserve entanglement. Having the cable w/ the RSL a little longer ensures it will release the riser second, preventing the possibility of the RSL deploying the reserve before the main is completely gone.

Hook

[Craig 0]

Cause if your RSL side riser releases before the other riser it will start the deployment of your reserve with the main still attached.

[scottjaco 0]

wow, I guess I should get the hard housings,
they aren't too expensive....so screw it, I 'll get them installed on my next repack cycle.

In fact, I'm also getting the reseve pin cover replaced with a better one that has tuck tabs... the old one has a broken stiffiner and pops out when I sit fly.....

I'll ask about the capped riser housings also when I call R.I.

Thanks for the advice everyone....damn what a bizzarre thing to go wrong on your rig!!!

Thanks,
Scott Jaco
A-42434

[c2278222 0]

I got a '97 Talon and my rigger wouldn't pack the reserve without them, he said it was to dangerous.
As for the cost it was only $18 for the new housing s and $10 for my rigger to install them.
Cheap if you ask me.

[riggerrob 558]

I agree with the original poster: riser inserts would be a better investment.
I worked at Rigging Innovations during the mid-1990s when this whole problem reared its ugly head.
I am still convinced that the vast majority of problems were caused by incorrectly routed cables on Javelins. I also saw quite a few mis-routed cables on Flexons and '94 Talons.
Also, back in those days we did not understand the riser pinch phenomenon that can occur with bad line twists.
My personal rig is a 1997 Talon 2 with hybrid housings (soft ends, but a steel channel around the back of the neck) and I am in no rush to retrofit the cutaway housings, though I am looking for a set of riser inserts..

[hookitt 0]

Quote

(soft ends, but a steel channel around the back of the neck) reply]

Steel housing, That's a big difference. I would be comfortable with that set up, with riser inserts.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

• Quote

[rigging65 0]

To be realistic, you only need hard housings where the cable goes around a bend. This is the only place where you're going to see any real deformation of the soft housing, so it's really the only place you need to worry about it.

In my Talon, I had a hard housing around the yoke (as that was always the place most prone to crumpling upon trying to cutaway with soft housings). Everything else was soft and it was never a problem to deal with. I did intentionally misroute the cable outside the housing one time to test it...it was a real bitch to get the cables to cutaway. The whole yoke just crumpled in on you. The scary part was, you kept pulling cable out of the Handle end, but it never cleared the left 3-ring loop. Soon you ended up almost out to arm extension with the left riser still in place.

RI put a plastic tube into the backpad that you're supposed to route the cable through to eliminate this, but if you don't do it before you close the reserve top flap it's a real pain to get it to route through. The simple fix was to use the type III loop they provided and install the short hard housing...problem solved!

Beyond that, capped metal cable channel inserts are a great idea for any set of risers.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[sducoach 0]

RiggerRob,
Bingo on the Javelin, But! As I'm probably it is with the Talon, the problem with Javelins soft housings was not the rig but the rigger/skydiver who mis-routed the cables. It was easy to do. I made a tool out of a hanger to use as a "snake" to feed through and make sure of the routing. I've since put several hard housings on and use them on my rigs.
Blues,
J.E.

James 4:8

[1234hutch 0]

they have been report as a contriputing i situations lately.

Several manufacturers havepresented stiffenerto proct the tips ofthe cutaway handles.

[1234hutch 0]

Do you use an rsl ? consult rigger for the correct timing.


Sign
Hutc Master rigger

[fundgh 0]

With 60 jumps, and on the gear you are flying, I really doubt that you have had a line twist that put you on your back and twisted up your risers. If you had, you would have never started this post. Make sure you look cool, and you will never have to worry about mal

...FUN FOR ALL!

[alan 1]

Quote

My personal rig is a 1997 Talon 2 with hybrid housings (soft ends, but a steel channel around the back of the neck) and I am in no rush to retrofit the cutaway housings,

The hard housing retrofit from RI results in the hybrid housings you already have, it does not replace the soft housing that goes from the mud flap to the retaining loop and grommet...unless they have changed them recently.

alan