Kipu 0 #1 February 3, 2012 The subject line kinda says it all. Should we new jumpers carry hook knives, and if so, can you recommend one, and also, where does one carry it? As always thanks. You guys are the best, Josh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #2 February 3, 2012 Do you know what to do with it: what it can be used for, and how to use it? If the answers are "yes", then you should carry one. If the answers are "no", then you should learn so that you can answer "yes". However, a new jumper shouldn't go over-thinking malfunctions in order to try and find some way out of it with a hook knife. Stick to the basic emergency procedures. A hook knife is really only employed in very rare and highly unusual situations. But it doesn't hurt to have one and not use it. Mostly I just spend a lot of money on them, only to lose them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #3 February 3, 2012 QuoteThe subject line kinda says it all. Should we new jumpers carry hook knives, and if so, can you recommend one, and also, where does one carry it? As always thanks. You guys are the best, Josh Sure, looking for it will give you something to occupy the last few seconds of your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kipu 0 #4 February 3, 2012 Quote"Sure, looking for it will give you something to occupy the last few seconds of your life." Never mind then. I had already allocated that time for high speed BM. Last thing I need is a frantic search interfering with my grand finale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skinnay 0 #5 February 3, 2012 QuoteQuoteThe subject line kinda says it all. Should we new jumpers carry hook knives, and if so, can you recommend one, and also, where does one carry it? As always thanks. You guys are the best, Josh Sure, looking for it will give you something to occupy the last few seconds of your life. Can you elaborate on this logic? What if he has a premature reserve deployment in the door and is stuck on the tail? IMO.. YES, you should have a hook knife. But you should learn what situations you would need it before your next jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kipu 0 #6 February 3, 2012 Thanks folks. Skinn, I saw the recent post of the gal who was pushed out after an accidental activation of reserve at the door, and subsequent posts of a horrible accident due to a similar mal. Some occasions that would benefit from the use of a knife seem self evident, but I wouldn't dare expect my current "common sense" to serve as a deciding factor. So, I guess the obvious question would be... where do I learn about causes for use, and the proper execution of knife use in the event of said causes? And again, where would one carry a hook knife? (I'm looking for functional, but style points are also important. There are ladies at my DZ). Thanks again, Josh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #7 February 3, 2012 No real downside to having one, and it might come in handy as this thread outlines. The only downside to having it is if you start deciding that because you have it, it'll be cool to do in-air rigging on a malfunctioning main rather than executing your emergency procedures. There are some not-so-common scenarios where a hook knife can help you get out of trouble, but I'd go so far as to say the overwhelming majority of malfunctions are best solved by proper execution of emergency procedures, not MacGyvering a solution as you are moving at high speed towards a planet. "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rwieder 0 #8 February 3, 2012 +1!-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bluetwo 0 #9 February 3, 2012 Quote No real downside to having one, and it might come in handy as this thread outlines. The only downside to having it is if you start deciding that because you have it, it'll be cool to do in-air rigging on a malfunctioning main rather than executing your emergency procedures. There are some not-so-common scenarios where a hook knife can help you get out of trouble, but I'd go so far as to say the overwhelming majority of malfunctions are best solved by proper execution of emergency procedures, not MacGyvering a solution as you are moving at high speed towards a planet. Thank you!! Seriously, big props for actually providing a place to learn about potential life saving procedures instead of just saying you need to go learn them. I was seriously about to blast some people out for that, not that I wanted to. It's just not right in my opinion, actually in the real world that we occupy it's not right. Some people like to act like they are above helping I guess._______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckakers 369 #10 February 3, 2012 If you don't have a hook knife when you need one, you will probably never need one again. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pompita 0 #11 February 3, 2012 So, I started thinking about this after my last jump. On my last dive, I was on my first jump with a non-coach on a simple two way (jump #33), but I was a bit nervous since this was a significant jump for me. I tracked away at the end of the jump and did not reduce my speed enough prior to deploying (e.g., did not sufficiently return to neutral position before tossing the PC). The result of this was that the bag smacked me on the top of my right foot as the PC pulled it from the container. I can't explain how or why that was but it happened (I'm guessing because of my speed). Luckily I had an uneventful deployment and remainder of the skydive, but I feel like I was close to a horseshoe malfunction. Clearly, I will now focus on returning to not just a proper body position after a track, but also an appropriate reduction in speed before deploying. However, I wonder if one of the mals that a hook knife MIGHT be helpful with is a horseshoe. I agree that there are EPs that need to be adhered to, even for a horseshoe mal. But there are unquestionably certain very specific situations that may not be remediable with standard EPs. I am a new jumper and had the hook knife question so I'm glad I ran across this thread. All this being said, I can only speculate on the use of a hook knife in a horseshoe situation, where really it's to cut away a line or two, altitude permitting, if reasonable. Is this accurate? Thoughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #12 February 3, 2012 Horseshoes are best dealt with through prevention. They're one of those "no really good options" malfunctions, where your speed could vary from terminal or near-terminal to fairly slow. In the "fairly slow" situation you might have time to do some cutting, but in the terminal- or near-terminal situation, dicking around with your hook knife is not likely to improve the situation much, either, since you're looking at but a few seconds to impact, and your better (not great, but better) option is probably to attempt to get more fabric (e.g., reserve) over your head if you can't otherwise clear the horseshoe fairly quickly. My personal feeling on a hook knife is that I hope to never need to use it on a skydive, but I don't want to be thinking "gee, a hook knife might have helped" and not have one."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjumpenfool 2 #13 February 3, 2012 Quote And again, where would one carry a hook knife? (I'm looking for functional, but style points are also important. There are ladies at my DZ). Thanks again, Josh I usually carry two (I'm an old CRW Pup), one on my chest strap and one in my leg pocket. In my 35 years, in the sport I've only used it once... because I couldn't get a tent stake out of the ground. However, I feel confident knowing their both there. Also, I've see many people carry them in a pouch on the harness below the three rings. I believe Mirage has a pouch built into the harness... see attached.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #14 February 3, 2012 Don't the CRW dogs say to carry at least two because you'll drop at least one in the adrenaline rush? "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjumpenfool 2 #15 February 3, 2012 Quote Don't the CRW dogs say to carry at least two because you'll drop at least one in the adrenaline rush? Oh, that's why I carry the third one under my helmet... Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zymurdoo 0 #16 February 3, 2012 No one has pointed out which hook knife to use if you so choose. Skip any hook knife made with a plastic handle, which can break when you use them. Also avoid any that have two separate knife blades, which can bind and trap the material needing to be cut. Benchmade Hook/Safety cutters are the best on the market. Expensive but worth the money. They are machined from one piece of tempered steel. Some even have the requisite bottle opener for participating in post jump activities. http://www.benchmade.com/images/pr/pdf/Rescue-Hook-Family2.pdf http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_list.aspx?keyword=hookBlue Skies, Soft Docks and Happy Landings! CWR #23 (It's called CRW, add an e if you like, but I ain't calling it CFS. FU FAI!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 0 #17 February 3, 2012 A hookknife in a highspeed horseshoe mal, no. Don't try and use it for "run-of-the-mil" malfunctions. It can't hurt to have one or 2 on you, just don't waste any valueable time with one during a mal. Basically, perform your EPs as trained and if that doesn't have the desired effect, or EPs aren't applicably, then a hookknife can be a life-saver. If for instance your glove or swoopcord gets stuck on your (camera) helmet, a staticliner gets "hung-up" on the airplane, you want to try and fix a line-over on your reserve, or get rid of a buddy's canopy in a CRW wrap, then yes go for a hookknife. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #18 February 3, 2012 I've used my knife a couple of times 'So Far' in my Skydiving career. The 1st time to cut the static-line of a student in tow, and the second on a reserve line-over. I don't do CReW so (for me) those two instances are about the only times I can (off the top of my head) think of where a hook-knife is an actual necessity...maybe slicing a stuck seat-belt in the event of an airplane crash evacuation. You really have to be aware of what needs to be done and do it right if you're attempting any in-air rigging. On the reserve line-over I had, I cut two of the WRONG lines prior to taking a hard look and doing it right. Trust me any more cutting in the wrong place might have been a drastic mistake...so be DAMN careful what you're doing. That being said, I ALWAYS carry two on sport jumps and usually 3 on demos. I have a couple of Bench-made knives, and several aluminum handled single blade units the gear store sells at my home DZ. A couple of things I'd like to mention~ The cheapo plastic handle junkers are only good for cutting pull-up cords when packing. They are next to useless. As someone stated earlier, if you decide on a knife that's blade replaceable...get the single blade unit only. Double blade knives sound better in theory, but material can bind up the blades and render it useless. When deciding where to put your knife, make sure you can get to it quickly & easily with either hand. Your hook-knife is a last ditch 'tool' you carry to save your life if/when necessary...treat it as such. Check it now & then...keep it clean, sharp & rust free...importantly ~ NEVER cut anything with it unless you're in an emergency situation. Unnecessary use may ding or dull the blade making it less efficient when you actually need to save yer butt. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites indyz 1 #19 February 4, 2012 QuoteSo, I started thinking about this after my last jump. On my last dive, I was on my first jump with a non-coach on a simple two way (jump #33), but I was a bit nervous since this was a significant jump for me. I tracked away at the end of the jump and did not reduce my speed enough prior to deploying (e.g., did not sufficiently return to neutral position before tossing the PC). The result of this was that the bag smacked me on the top of my right foot as the PC pulled it from the container. I can't explain how or why that was but it happened (I'm guessing because of my speed). Luckily I had an uneventful deployment and remainder of the skydive, but I feel like I was close to a horseshoe malfunction. Clearly, I will now focus on returning to not just a proper body position after a track, but also an appropriate reduction in speed before deploying. However, I wonder if one of the mals that a hook knife MIGHT be helpful with is a horseshoe. I agree that there are EPs that need to be adhered to, even for a horseshoe mal. But there are unquestionably certain very specific situations that may not be remediable with standard EPs. I am a new jumper and had the hook knife question so I'm glad I ran across this thread. All this being said, I can only speculate on the use of a hook knife in a horseshoe situation, where really it's to cut away a line or two, altitude permitting, if reasonable. Is this accurate? Thoughts? A friend of mine had a horseshoe and tried to cut the bridle with his hook knife. He died with the knife in his hand and nothing out. Nothing is certain, but if he had just dumped his reserve he would probably still be around to tell the story. In this sort of high-speed situation, it is critical to get a parachute open. Sort out the mess once everything is slowed down. FWIW, the best trackers in the world can throw out in a full track and not have anything hit their feet. My guess is that you were either in a steep dive instead of a good flat track, or you put your feet way up on your butt as you came out of your track and threw, or some combination of both. Try to get a more experienced jumper to video your track. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SStewart 13 #20 February 4, 2012 Quote I've used my knife a couple of times 'So Far' in my Skydiving career. The 1st time to cut the static-line of a student in tow, and the second on a reserve line-over. I don't do CReW so (for me) those two instances are about the only times I can (off the top of my head) think of where a hook-knife is an actual necessity...maybe slicing a stuck seat-belt in the event of an airplane crash evacuation. You really have to be aware of what needs to be done and do it right if you're attempting any in-air rigging. On the reserve line-over I had, I cut two of the WRONG lines prior to taking a hard look and doing it right. Trust me any more cutting in the wrong place might have been a drastic mistake...so be DAMN careful what you're doing. That being said, I ALWAYS carry two on sport jumps and usually 3 on demos. I have a couple of Bench-made knives, and several aluminum handled single blade units the gear store sells at my home DZ. A couple of things I'd like to mention~ The cheapo plastic handle junkers are only good for cutting pull-up cords when packing. They are next to useless. As someone stated earlier, if you decide on a knife that's blade replaceable...get the single blade unit only. Double blade knives sound better in theory, but material can bind up the blades and render it useless. When deciding where to put your knife, make sure you can get to it quickly & easily with either hand. Your hook-knife is a last ditch 'tool' you carry to save your life if/when necessary...treat it as such. Check it now & then...keep it clean, sharp & rust free...importantly ~ NEVER cut anything with it unless you're in an emergency situation. Unnecessary use may ding or dull the blade making it less efficient when you actually need to save yer butt. + 1 I started doing CRW and got my static line JM rating about the same time and that was when I started jumping with a knife. It became habit so now I just consider it part of the gear. Just one of the tools in the toy box. Very unlikely I will ever need it now with the type of jumping I do but I still like knowing it is there.Onward and Upward! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SStewart 13 #21 February 4, 2012 QuoteSo, I started thinking about this after my last jump. On my last dive, I was on my first jump with a non-coach on a simple two way (jump #33), but I was a bit nervous since this was a significant jump for me. I tracked away at the end of the jump and did not reduce my speed enough prior to deploying (e.g., did not sufficiently return to neutral position before tossing the PC). The result of this was that the bag smacked me on the top of my right foot as the PC pulled it from the container. I can't explain how or why that was but it happened (I'm guessing because of my speed). Luckily I had an uneventful deployment and remainder of the skydive, but I feel like I was close to a horseshoe malfunction. Clearly, I will now focus on returning to not just a proper body position after a track, but also an appropriate reduction in speed before deploying. However, I wonder if one of the mals that a hook knife MIGHT be helpful with is a horseshoe. I agree that there are EPs that need to be adhered to, even for a horseshoe mal. But there are unquestionably certain very specific situations that may not be remediable with standard EPs. I am a new jumper and had the hook knife question so I'm glad I ran across this thread. All this being said, I can only speculate on the use of a hook knife in a horseshoe situation, where really it's to cut away a line or two, altitude permitting, if reasonable. Is this accurate? Thoughts? During your student training what were you instructed to do in the event of a horseshoe? That is what you should stick with. I can think of many situations where a hook knife will come in handy but a horseshoe is not one of them.Onward and Upward! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #22 February 4, 2012 An old jumper I knew use to say the only thing it was good for is cutting your throat to prevent 'impact' as the cause of death! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites theonlyski 3 #23 February 4, 2012 Quote An old jumper I knew use to say the only thing it was good for is cutting your throat to prevent 'impact' as the cause of death! Musta been one of them pencil necks!"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #24 February 4, 2012 QuoteThe subject line kinda says it all. Should we new jumpers carry hook knives, and if so, can you recommend one, and also, where does one carry it? There is a school of thought that even with training on how to use one students are more likely to misuse one than properly use one. I.e. die trying to do mid air rigging as opposed to just cutting away a simple main mal. I'm not saying I agree with it but few schools equip students with knifes."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kipu 0 #25 February 4, 2012 Allllllright then.... I'm new to the sport and newer to the forums. So, is this kind of inconclusiveness something I should get used to? Please do not intemperate this question as any form of disrespect. I'm thrilled to get the responses, even if they leave me just as questionable as where I was when I started. Here's one maybe all of you can agree on... When I recover from my broken ankle, and begin jumping again in April I would like to make my first skydive back a special one. It will be my 17th jump, and since that is how old my wife was when we began dating, it only seems appropriate that I should spread her fathers ashes during my free fall. (Wow, that man did not like me!) Anyway, because I'm a sentimental man and want the moment to last, I was thinking a wing-suit would be the only appropriate way. Now, documentation is immeasurably important and can only be done properly through video. I have no "GoPro" or any other newfangled equipment. However, I do have my uncles old VHS recorder and a football helmet from my sophomore year. NOW I KNOW WHAT YOU"RE THINKING!!!!! What about the music? And this brings us to the reason for the post. Granted, I will be listening to my Ipod while jumping a wing suit and filming the spreading of my father in laws ashes, but I will have a hook knife in case anything on this 3,500ft hop n pop goes wrong. Finally, the question! Are you thinking a rock n roll thing or maybe R n B over the edited footage? My first thought was classical, but I don't wanna cramp in on the "Chariots of Fire" style. Any input is appreciated. Mahalo, Josh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
skinnay 0 #5 February 3, 2012 QuoteQuoteThe subject line kinda says it all. Should we new jumpers carry hook knives, and if so, can you recommend one, and also, where does one carry it? As always thanks. You guys are the best, Josh Sure, looking for it will give you something to occupy the last few seconds of your life. Can you elaborate on this logic? What if he has a premature reserve deployment in the door and is stuck on the tail? IMO.. YES, you should have a hook knife. But you should learn what situations you would need it before your next jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kipu 0 #6 February 3, 2012 Thanks folks. Skinn, I saw the recent post of the gal who was pushed out after an accidental activation of reserve at the door, and subsequent posts of a horrible accident due to a similar mal. Some occasions that would benefit from the use of a knife seem self evident, but I wouldn't dare expect my current "common sense" to serve as a deciding factor. So, I guess the obvious question would be... where do I learn about causes for use, and the proper execution of knife use in the event of said causes? And again, where would one carry a hook knife? (I'm looking for functional, but style points are also important. There are ladies at my DZ). Thanks again, Josh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #7 February 3, 2012 No real downside to having one, and it might come in handy as this thread outlines. The only downside to having it is if you start deciding that because you have it, it'll be cool to do in-air rigging on a malfunctioning main rather than executing your emergency procedures. There are some not-so-common scenarios where a hook knife can help you get out of trouble, but I'd go so far as to say the overwhelming majority of malfunctions are best solved by proper execution of emergency procedures, not MacGyvering a solution as you are moving at high speed towards a planet. "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #8 February 3, 2012 +1!-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluetwo 0 #9 February 3, 2012 Quote No real downside to having one, and it might come in handy as this thread outlines. The only downside to having it is if you start deciding that because you have it, it'll be cool to do in-air rigging on a malfunctioning main rather than executing your emergency procedures. There are some not-so-common scenarios where a hook knife can help you get out of trouble, but I'd go so far as to say the overwhelming majority of malfunctions are best solved by proper execution of emergency procedures, not MacGyvering a solution as you are moving at high speed towards a planet. Thank you!! Seriously, big props for actually providing a place to learn about potential life saving procedures instead of just saying you need to go learn them. I was seriously about to blast some people out for that, not that I wanted to. It's just not right in my opinion, actually in the real world that we occupy it's not right. Some people like to act like they are above helping I guess._______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 369 #10 February 3, 2012 If you don't have a hook knife when you need one, you will probably never need one again. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pompita 0 #11 February 3, 2012 So, I started thinking about this after my last jump. On my last dive, I was on my first jump with a non-coach on a simple two way (jump #33), but I was a bit nervous since this was a significant jump for me. I tracked away at the end of the jump and did not reduce my speed enough prior to deploying (e.g., did not sufficiently return to neutral position before tossing the PC). The result of this was that the bag smacked me on the top of my right foot as the PC pulled it from the container. I can't explain how or why that was but it happened (I'm guessing because of my speed). Luckily I had an uneventful deployment and remainder of the skydive, but I feel like I was close to a horseshoe malfunction. Clearly, I will now focus on returning to not just a proper body position after a track, but also an appropriate reduction in speed before deploying. However, I wonder if one of the mals that a hook knife MIGHT be helpful with is a horseshoe. I agree that there are EPs that need to be adhered to, even for a horseshoe mal. But there are unquestionably certain very specific situations that may not be remediable with standard EPs. I am a new jumper and had the hook knife question so I'm glad I ran across this thread. All this being said, I can only speculate on the use of a hook knife in a horseshoe situation, where really it's to cut away a line or two, altitude permitting, if reasonable. Is this accurate? Thoughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #12 February 3, 2012 Horseshoes are best dealt with through prevention. They're one of those "no really good options" malfunctions, where your speed could vary from terminal or near-terminal to fairly slow. In the "fairly slow" situation you might have time to do some cutting, but in the terminal- or near-terminal situation, dicking around with your hook knife is not likely to improve the situation much, either, since you're looking at but a few seconds to impact, and your better (not great, but better) option is probably to attempt to get more fabric (e.g., reserve) over your head if you can't otherwise clear the horseshoe fairly quickly. My personal feeling on a hook knife is that I hope to never need to use it on a skydive, but I don't want to be thinking "gee, a hook knife might have helped" and not have one."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #13 February 3, 2012 Quote And again, where would one carry a hook knife? (I'm looking for functional, but style points are also important. There are ladies at my DZ). Thanks again, Josh I usually carry two (I'm an old CRW Pup), one on my chest strap and one in my leg pocket. In my 35 years, in the sport I've only used it once... because I couldn't get a tent stake out of the ground. However, I feel confident knowing their both there. Also, I've see many people carry them in a pouch on the harness below the three rings. I believe Mirage has a pouch built into the harness... see attached.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #14 February 3, 2012 Don't the CRW dogs say to carry at least two because you'll drop at least one in the adrenaline rush? "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #15 February 3, 2012 Quote Don't the CRW dogs say to carry at least two because you'll drop at least one in the adrenaline rush? Oh, that's why I carry the third one under my helmet... Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zymurdoo 0 #16 February 3, 2012 No one has pointed out which hook knife to use if you so choose. Skip any hook knife made with a plastic handle, which can break when you use them. Also avoid any that have two separate knife blades, which can bind and trap the material needing to be cut. Benchmade Hook/Safety cutters are the best on the market. Expensive but worth the money. They are machined from one piece of tempered steel. Some even have the requisite bottle opener for participating in post jump activities. http://www.benchmade.com/images/pr/pdf/Rescue-Hook-Family2.pdf http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_list.aspx?keyword=hookBlue Skies, Soft Docks and Happy Landings! CWR #23 (It's called CRW, add an e if you like, but I ain't calling it CFS. FU FAI!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #17 February 3, 2012 A hookknife in a highspeed horseshoe mal, no. Don't try and use it for "run-of-the-mil" malfunctions. It can't hurt to have one or 2 on you, just don't waste any valueable time with one during a mal. Basically, perform your EPs as trained and if that doesn't have the desired effect, or EPs aren't applicably, then a hookknife can be a life-saver. If for instance your glove or swoopcord gets stuck on your (camera) helmet, a staticliner gets "hung-up" on the airplane, you want to try and fix a line-over on your reserve, or get rid of a buddy's canopy in a CRW wrap, then yes go for a hookknife. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #18 February 3, 2012 I've used my knife a couple of times 'So Far' in my Skydiving career. The 1st time to cut the static-line of a student in tow, and the second on a reserve line-over. I don't do CReW so (for me) those two instances are about the only times I can (off the top of my head) think of where a hook-knife is an actual necessity...maybe slicing a stuck seat-belt in the event of an airplane crash evacuation. You really have to be aware of what needs to be done and do it right if you're attempting any in-air rigging. On the reserve line-over I had, I cut two of the WRONG lines prior to taking a hard look and doing it right. Trust me any more cutting in the wrong place might have been a drastic mistake...so be DAMN careful what you're doing. That being said, I ALWAYS carry two on sport jumps and usually 3 on demos. I have a couple of Bench-made knives, and several aluminum handled single blade units the gear store sells at my home DZ. A couple of things I'd like to mention~ The cheapo plastic handle junkers are only good for cutting pull-up cords when packing. They are next to useless. As someone stated earlier, if you decide on a knife that's blade replaceable...get the single blade unit only. Double blade knives sound better in theory, but material can bind up the blades and render it useless. When deciding where to put your knife, make sure you can get to it quickly & easily with either hand. Your hook-knife is a last ditch 'tool' you carry to save your life if/when necessary...treat it as such. Check it now & then...keep it clean, sharp & rust free...importantly ~ NEVER cut anything with it unless you're in an emergency situation. Unnecessary use may ding or dull the blade making it less efficient when you actually need to save yer butt. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #19 February 4, 2012 QuoteSo, I started thinking about this after my last jump. On my last dive, I was on my first jump with a non-coach on a simple two way (jump #33), but I was a bit nervous since this was a significant jump for me. I tracked away at the end of the jump and did not reduce my speed enough prior to deploying (e.g., did not sufficiently return to neutral position before tossing the PC). The result of this was that the bag smacked me on the top of my right foot as the PC pulled it from the container. I can't explain how or why that was but it happened (I'm guessing because of my speed). Luckily I had an uneventful deployment and remainder of the skydive, but I feel like I was close to a horseshoe malfunction. Clearly, I will now focus on returning to not just a proper body position after a track, but also an appropriate reduction in speed before deploying. However, I wonder if one of the mals that a hook knife MIGHT be helpful with is a horseshoe. I agree that there are EPs that need to be adhered to, even for a horseshoe mal. But there are unquestionably certain very specific situations that may not be remediable with standard EPs. I am a new jumper and had the hook knife question so I'm glad I ran across this thread. All this being said, I can only speculate on the use of a hook knife in a horseshoe situation, where really it's to cut away a line or two, altitude permitting, if reasonable. Is this accurate? Thoughts? A friend of mine had a horseshoe and tried to cut the bridle with his hook knife. He died with the knife in his hand and nothing out. Nothing is certain, but if he had just dumped his reserve he would probably still be around to tell the story. In this sort of high-speed situation, it is critical to get a parachute open. Sort out the mess once everything is slowed down. FWIW, the best trackers in the world can throw out in a full track and not have anything hit their feet. My guess is that you were either in a steep dive instead of a good flat track, or you put your feet way up on your butt as you came out of your track and threw, or some combination of both. Try to get a more experienced jumper to video your track. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SStewart 13 #20 February 4, 2012 Quote I've used my knife a couple of times 'So Far' in my Skydiving career. The 1st time to cut the static-line of a student in tow, and the second on a reserve line-over. I don't do CReW so (for me) those two instances are about the only times I can (off the top of my head) think of where a hook-knife is an actual necessity...maybe slicing a stuck seat-belt in the event of an airplane crash evacuation. You really have to be aware of what needs to be done and do it right if you're attempting any in-air rigging. On the reserve line-over I had, I cut two of the WRONG lines prior to taking a hard look and doing it right. Trust me any more cutting in the wrong place might have been a drastic mistake...so be DAMN careful what you're doing. That being said, I ALWAYS carry two on sport jumps and usually 3 on demos. I have a couple of Bench-made knives, and several aluminum handled single blade units the gear store sells at my home DZ. A couple of things I'd like to mention~ The cheapo plastic handle junkers are only good for cutting pull-up cords when packing. They are next to useless. As someone stated earlier, if you decide on a knife that's blade replaceable...get the single blade unit only. Double blade knives sound better in theory, but material can bind up the blades and render it useless. When deciding where to put your knife, make sure you can get to it quickly & easily with either hand. Your hook-knife is a last ditch 'tool' you carry to save your life if/when necessary...treat it as such. Check it now & then...keep it clean, sharp & rust free...importantly ~ NEVER cut anything with it unless you're in an emergency situation. Unnecessary use may ding or dull the blade making it less efficient when you actually need to save yer butt. + 1 I started doing CRW and got my static line JM rating about the same time and that was when I started jumping with a knife. It became habit so now I just consider it part of the gear. Just one of the tools in the toy box. Very unlikely I will ever need it now with the type of jumping I do but I still like knowing it is there.Onward and Upward! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SStewart 13 #21 February 4, 2012 QuoteSo, I started thinking about this after my last jump. On my last dive, I was on my first jump with a non-coach on a simple two way (jump #33), but I was a bit nervous since this was a significant jump for me. I tracked away at the end of the jump and did not reduce my speed enough prior to deploying (e.g., did not sufficiently return to neutral position before tossing the PC). The result of this was that the bag smacked me on the top of my right foot as the PC pulled it from the container. I can't explain how or why that was but it happened (I'm guessing because of my speed). Luckily I had an uneventful deployment and remainder of the skydive, but I feel like I was close to a horseshoe malfunction. Clearly, I will now focus on returning to not just a proper body position after a track, but also an appropriate reduction in speed before deploying. However, I wonder if one of the mals that a hook knife MIGHT be helpful with is a horseshoe. I agree that there are EPs that need to be adhered to, even for a horseshoe mal. But there are unquestionably certain very specific situations that may not be remediable with standard EPs. I am a new jumper and had the hook knife question so I'm glad I ran across this thread. All this being said, I can only speculate on the use of a hook knife in a horseshoe situation, where really it's to cut away a line or two, altitude permitting, if reasonable. Is this accurate? Thoughts? During your student training what were you instructed to do in the event of a horseshoe? That is what you should stick with. I can think of many situations where a hook knife will come in handy but a horseshoe is not one of them.Onward and Upward! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #22 February 4, 2012 An old jumper I knew use to say the only thing it was good for is cutting your throat to prevent 'impact' as the cause of death! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #23 February 4, 2012 Quote An old jumper I knew use to say the only thing it was good for is cutting your throat to prevent 'impact' as the cause of death! Musta been one of them pencil necks!"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #24 February 4, 2012 QuoteThe subject line kinda says it all. Should we new jumpers carry hook knives, and if so, can you recommend one, and also, where does one carry it? There is a school of thought that even with training on how to use one students are more likely to misuse one than properly use one. I.e. die trying to do mid air rigging as opposed to just cutting away a simple main mal. I'm not saying I agree with it but few schools equip students with knifes."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kipu 0 #25 February 4, 2012 Allllllright then.... I'm new to the sport and newer to the forums. So, is this kind of inconclusiveness something I should get used to? Please do not intemperate this question as any form of disrespect. I'm thrilled to get the responses, even if they leave me just as questionable as where I was when I started. Here's one maybe all of you can agree on... When I recover from my broken ankle, and begin jumping again in April I would like to make my first skydive back a special one. It will be my 17th jump, and since that is how old my wife was when we began dating, it only seems appropriate that I should spread her fathers ashes during my free fall. (Wow, that man did not like me!) Anyway, because I'm a sentimental man and want the moment to last, I was thinking a wing-suit would be the only appropriate way. Now, documentation is immeasurably important and can only be done properly through video. I have no "GoPro" or any other newfangled equipment. However, I do have my uncles old VHS recorder and a football helmet from my sophomore year. NOW I KNOW WHAT YOU"RE THINKING!!!!! What about the music? And this brings us to the reason for the post. Granted, I will be listening to my Ipod while jumping a wing suit and filming the spreading of my father in laws ashes, but I will have a hook knife in case anything on this 3,500ft hop n pop goes wrong. Finally, the question! Are you thinking a rock n roll thing or maybe R n B over the edited footage? My first thought was classical, but I don't wanna cramp in on the "Chariots of Fire" style. Any input is appreciated. Mahalo, Josh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
