spectre openings

[cmnorris 0]

I have a spectre 135 and a few months ago my openings were getting progressively worse. It would be a wonderful opening until the very end when the end cells would suddenly inflate quickly and the canopy would surge forward. I sent it in to PD and ended up with a new line set and a larger slider.

The openings are better now than they were, but I still don't feel like they are as gentle as they should be. I still have the same problem, just not as bad (canopy opens wonderfully until the very end).

I was wondering if anyone else has experienced a similar problem or if there are any suggestions on how to deal with this. Currently, I don't do anything to the nose and I don't think that this is my imagination (or due to bad body position upon deployment) since Jairo has jumped it and has noticed the same thing.

Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

[payback462 0]

ive also noticed that somewhat violent foreward surge at the very end of the opening on a demo spectre 210 that i put about 6 or 7 jumps on.

other than that the openings are what ive experienced with the 2 other spectres ive demoed, slow and soft.

[quade 3]

Are you packing according to directions or are you doing something slightly "different"?

I have about 1,300 jumps on my Spectres and the only times I've ever gotten wacky openings are times when they've gotten to the end of the line-set lifespan -OR- I've had somebody else pack.

I find that if you follow the directions (a normal Pro-Pack with no funky nose pushing or stuffing), then it works pretty darn well.

If it isn't the packing or the line set, is it -possible- that you're inducing some sort of funky body position?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[cmnorris 0]

I've gone through these possibilities. I've been packing the canopy the same way since I've had it. I have never tried doing anything to the nose.

I also considered the possibility that it was my body position, but since someone else (way more experienced than I am) noticed the same thing when he jumped it I think it may not be me.

I've always heard that Spectres were supposed to open beautifully and mine does until the very end.

[darkwing 4]

I've got 400 jumps on my spectre 190 and don't have this happen, but it is a long way from 135 to 190. I would normally blame line trim, but a new set of lines from the factory would seem to rule that out. I too do nothing to the nose, leave it full out when I release it from between my legs. I'd ask PD if they might recommend a slight change to the brake settings.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[ianmdrennan 2]

I don't own a spectre but like to jump as many canopies as possible so I can give "somewhat" intellegent advise when asked about them.

A friend of mine has 2 spectre 120's so I took one for a flip at the end of last season....interestingly enough it surged like no other on opening - almost like I'd put the canopy on the edge of a stall and then let go of both toggles (but more violent than I could accomplish on toggles)...no turn, not hard just weird.

He assured me this has never happened to him before so I took it for another jump - no issues this time.

Go figure, but at least you know you're not alone :)

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[ScratchTX 0]

One more chiming in -- did two jumps on a Spectre 150 demo last weekend and on the second one (hop n pop subterminal) I had a forward surge on opening just like described here. Weird -- stable, on heading dive for maybe 2-3 seconds or so before recovering. I chalked it up to subterminal opening, slider not coming all the way down immediately since I was loading it very lightly (about .9:1) but now I wonder. I had gently stuffed the nose on that pack job, though, and rolled the tail pretty tight. I'll watch for it more next weekend and see what happens.

[R00tj00se 0]

I've got about 50 jumps ona spectre 135 and I've had one funky opening where right at the end of inflation the centre of the canopy seems to dip in middle and then reinflate and surge forward. I put it down to the fact that I rolled out of a back track and dumped straight away as I have not had this happen on any other openings.
However, a friend of mine has 200 jumps on a spectre 170 and gets this problem quite often. He has also put it down to not slowing down enough after freeflying.
Can't really knock the spectre though - awesome openings (apart from the one mentioned).

[JFC3 0]

I would like to have experienced it myself so I knew what you were referring to but after almost 300 jumps on my old spectre the only weird openings I had were ones where I forgot to stow a toggle. Other than that every opening was soft, consistent and on heading. There was always a bit of a dip as I released to toggles into full flight, but I actually miss that now that I'm on my Sabre2.

"Five days? But I'm angry now!"

[Michele 1]

I jump a spectre...and haven't jumped anything else so have no ability to compare. I thought my weird at the bottom openings were a result of my body position (and they really may be...) but I've had some interesting ones...one at sub terminal where I thought I might have to chop it because it was wonky...several others that "twitched" me around.

I'll pay more attention this weekend when I jump, and see if it's something I can spot (although what I dunno), or if there's something I notice about how it feels. Don't think I can be of much help because of my inexperience, but I'll "feel" harder...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[JGarcia 0]

I've jumped Christina's canopy many times. We finally sent it to PD after I was tired of hearing/feeling my vertibrae crack on openings. I used to tuck my chin in when jumping this canopy to protect my neck (something I never had to do with any other canopy jumped whilst shooting video--6 other canopies). This was happening reguardless of what was done to the nose. Furthermore, it had a built in turn (don't remember if it was a left or right turn). We simply attributed all this to the canopy being out of trim.

It took PD about 4 weeks of "engineering" before we got it back, but it did open better with the new slider/line set and the turn was gone.

Didn't jump it for a while, but needed it for a camera jump this past weekend. You can see/hear how rough the opening surge is by watching the video. . The canopy has, maybe, 40 jumps on the new line set. If PD could get this canopy to open as sweet as my Velocity 90, I would be quite pleasantly surprised.

Cheers,

--Jairo

Low Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam!

[betzilla 56]

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ask PD if they might recommend a slight change to the brake settings.

That's what I was just thinking. So we know it's in trim, because you just got new lines. PD may have sent you a larger slider (if not, that's something you could ask about. But if it's surgin when it reaches full flight, it just might be something you could correct with a different brake setiing.

Note: I am NOT a rigger. But I'm angaged to one. Does that count?

[E150 0]

Just another opinion.

I have about 230 jumps on specte 120's. From a v old canopy with 1000 jumps and an old line set to a spanking new one.

I have never once had a surge forward as the end cells inflate. Opening are nearly always perfect.

[Michele 1]

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I'll pay more attention this weekend when I jump, and see if it's something I can spot (although what I dunno),

I did have the same kind of openings this weekend...on 3 of the 4 jumps. I was lucky enough to have someone observe the opening from about 1K over me, and per her observation I had no kinks in my body position.

I spoke with a guy who's opinion I respect a lot (and who packs for me) about this. His thought was that perhaps it was like it was in a deep stall, with center cells inflated, and end cells not...and, like when I'm in deep brakes and release them, it fills out again and "surges" forward.

I have no idea if this is actually right, but it "feels" the same... I tried stalling it to that point on the next jump, and yes, it's the same kind of forward "rush" that I feel on both opening and once releasing the brakes from a stall.

Dunno what to make of it, though...or even if I'd put a lot of credence in what I'm saying. I don't have lots of experience...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[nacmacfeegle 0]

I'm not sure about whether or not this stall/sugre thing is a problem, or an opening characteristic.
Maybe this 'spooky' sensation is all part of the thing opening slowly and smoothly?
What I have noticed is that factory spectres come with deep brake settings as standard.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Michele 1]

Morning, NacMac...

agreed that it isn't a problem for me...just something that this particular canopy does. I don't recall it doing it on the rental, but then, I wasn't as aware of the opening of that one, either. Openings are a little, uh, "sterssful" for me...LOL...

I think that, at least for me, it's more of a "hmmm, I wonder what that is" rather than "oh shit, what's going on???? Where're the handles...!!", and since I know less than nothing about canopies, it's just another facet to explore and learn about....

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Brokeneagle 0]

I have a beautiful Spectre 190 and have put about 85 jumps on it to date- I bought it used; the previous owner jumped it only 50 times before downsizing- It's been rare, but I have also experienced that same end-of-opening sequence, it actually has swung me back, then forward or out from the side- it feels almost exactly opposite the surge I get after completeing a spiral or set of them; THAT feels like the canopy rocks back, then suddenly dives forward; I used to attribute the opening surge to my body positioning @ deployment- the surge after spirals I feel is probably caused by the change in the canopy's air speed- feedback or additional info, anybody?
Brokeneagle.

I'm really very gentle, no matter what my kung-fu teacher says... he is giving me a reputation I do not deserve!

[cmnorris 0]

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I'm not sure about whether or not this stall/sugre thing is a problem, or an opening characteristic.
Maybe this 'spooky' sensation is all part of the thing opening slowly and smoothly?

I wish that this was the problem. However, after jumping this past weekend I've decided that the canopy will soon be making a return trip to PD. Like I said, the openings up until the very end are absolutely wonderful. I don't mind slow openings at all since I am quite used to this canopy. This past weekend one opening was rather violent and I was flung forward at the end...not a characteristic opening sequence for a spectre.

[quade 3]

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This past weekend one opening was rather violent and I was flung forward at the end...not a characteristic opening sequence for a spectre.

Just out of curiousity, can you describe your body position throughout the entire deployment sequence?

What I'm really curious about is what happens to your body and legs as the canopy is sniveling.

In the initial stages of inflation, are you rotating your body upward into a stand or sit OR is the canopy rotating your body into one of these positions? In other words, who's in control, the canopy or you?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[cmnorris 0]

What's strange is that after deployment I am vertical, watching the canopy inflate properly (and peacefully). It isn't until the very end, as in the last second, that the end cells inflate very rapidly and I am swung out from underneath. It is really unexpected.

I just shipped my canopy off to PD today and I have to say thank you to Donna and Kolla for helping me out. I should have a demo spectre by this weekend so that I can experience the beauty just like everyone else.

[MadQ 0]

I probably have over 500 jumps (I really should log my jumps *sigh*) on Spectres, a 215 and a 170.

In my experience there are only two things that will give a Spectre a funky opening: rolling the nose and rolling the tail.

There is no need whatsoever to roll the nose. A lot of people tuck the three cells on either side next to the center cell, which is left open. Not even this is necessary. Messing around with the nose has absolutely node impact on heading. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that rolling the nose only causes outer cells to inflate rapidly towards the end of the opening sequence, causing the sudden forward surge.

Rolling the tail too much is just about the only way to make a Spectre slam the crap out of you, a la old Sabres. I know this for a fact, because a packer (who had previously done good jobs) decided to pack contrary to my instructions, and rolled the bejezus out of the tail. He only told me about it afterwards. After a nasty opening, which left me with bruises all around my thighs, three riggers thoroughly inspected the canopy and found it to be in good order.
After the end of the season I sent it to PD, and they ended up putting a small patch on it.

Anyway, I recommend giving the tail about three half-folds, which should be plenty to keep the packjob together when it's lying on the floor.

-- MadQ

Eagles may fly, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

[Michele 1]

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After the end of the season I sent it to PD, and they ended up putting a small patch on it.

Is that how that patch got there? LOL, been wondering about it.

Love my canopy, Quinten, love it to bits and pieces....

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

I have about 500 jumps on my Spectre 150. I have only had one bad opening because I gave it a crappy pack job and a crappy S-fold. I generally tuck all 7 nose cells into the canopy and wrap and roll the tail. One other time I had line twists on opening. If your canopy is a Spectre and doing anything radical I would guess it might be your lines. I am not a rigger but I would take it to my rigger and have him look it over. These canopies are known for their beautiful, reliable, consistent on-heading openings which is why I have one. If the canopy is surging forward maybe your control lines are stretched or not stowed properly? Hmmmm.

Good luck!

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[JGarcia 0]

The Spectre in question has about 30 jumps on a brand new line set, relined by PD. It was originally sent to them for the same issues, thinking the problem was the out of trim line set. They replaced the lines and put a bigger slider on, which solved the problem for about 5 jumps.

At any rate, PD has been very generous and sent her a demo 135 to jump while they test jump and troubleshoot her's.

We'll see the differences tomorrow.

Cheers!

--Jairo

Low Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam!

[ZigZag 0]

Ziggy