Belly RW dead?

[blackout 0]

Seems from looking at the boards and the general mentality that belly flying is nothing more than a necessary transition to freeflying. I am relatively new to the sport and I happen to love RW but it seems like a dieing art. What do you think?

[siddacious 0]

I think you obviously haven't been paying attention to the goings on at nationals and the regional leagues. Belly RW isn't going anywhere.

A dolor netus non dui aliquet, sagittis felis sodales, dolor sociis mauris, vel eu libero cras. Interdum at. Eget habitasse elementum est.

[AMax 0]

i don't think so ...

http://skyleague.com/indexX.php

[hallschuch 0]

I see you jump @ CK. Have you checked out the event page, participated in 4-way scrambles (coming May 16 or 17th 2008), jumped with Steve Love, mingled with the 3 4-way teams or the 8 way team? Jumped on RW Mondays? Missed the RW happy hour this winter? Particpated in last years RW camps? Fiesta Boogie in August...loads of RW organizing! Tunnel camps??

You may want to increase your exposure to some events or find out who the RW jumpers are at the DZ.

[DARK 0]

i really hope its not dieing all i want to do is belly rw and camera flying i find ff videos soooo boring but then again i may change my mind when i actually do some

[ltdiver 3]

They're all out jumping instead of sitting around posting on here.
btw, wonder how the big-way camp at Perris is doing this weekend. Heard they had over 100! And then there's the 100-way invitational next weekend....

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

Hehe... people have been saying this for over a decade, and the picture hasn't changed. Belly is dead at individual DZ's, but it's not going anywhere in the grand scheme of things. Nationals still has 60ish belly teams and what... 8 VRW teams?

And what discipline are all the big money meets in? let see... Paraclete: belly. Malevsky cup: belly. valentine's meet: belly. World challenge: belly... yes, there are freefly money meets too, but not for thousands of dollars (yet... it'll happen soon enough).

Freefly/VRW is very cool, and it's new(ish) and exciting and growing, but it'll never displace belly completely.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[Orange1 0]

I may be wrong of course but it's my impression that the flagship event at any national or world champs is still 4-way FS.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[stratostar 5]

Fun jumping belly flying is dead, if you want to belly fly you have to be into being one of those team weenies, you just can't show up on a nice weekend day anymore and get on a FUN 6-8-10-12-150-20 way, unless you jump at one of the big maga centers and even then you'll be hard pressed to get on a load.

Just look at this fourm & thread, 99% nothing but team bullshit.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[labrys 0]

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Fun jumping belly flying is dead

Not where I jump. We haven't done scrambles or even NSL in a few years, granted... but that also means no teams and it's not hard at all to hook up with a 4-6-8 way at all. I guess it depends on where you are. We are most certainly not a "maga" (sic) center.

Owned by Remi #?

[kallend 1,619]

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Fun jumping belly flying is dead, if you want to belly fly you have to be into being one of those team weenies, you just can't show up on a nice weekend day anymore and get on a FUN 6-8-10-12-150-20 way, unless you jump at one of the big maga centers and even then you'll be hard pressed to get on a load.

Not where I jump. Lots of fun RW every weekend.

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Just look at this fourm & thread, 99% nothing but team bullshit.

OK, that's true.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[BillyVance 34]

Belly RW will never die. Skydiving got its start with belly flying, and you still have to learn belly flying before you do anything else anyway, and most DZs still have belly flyers. Some more than others.

It ain't going away, it's that simple.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[ltdiver 3]

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They're all out jumping instead of sitting around posting on here.
btw, wonder how the big-way camp at Perris is doing this weekend. Heard they had over 100! And then there's the 100-way invitational next weekend....

ltdiver

Check! They are ALL at Perris this month!

Just got back from the DZ and the 100-way camp has 150 in it this weekend...AND the 100-way invitational has 200 in it for next weekend!

Then there's the Brits and the large lot of skydivers from Singapore filling the alternate loads while the big-way debriefs.
The icing on the cake was March AFB Airshow's notables this weekend: The Golden Knights -and- the Canadian SkyHawks who both demo'd in to the show.

To say the least, Perris was HOPPING today!

Sorry to everyone else, as Perris seems to have stole all your belly flyers this month...

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[danornan 64]

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Fun jumping belly flying is dead

Not where I jump. We haven't done scrambles or even NSL in a few years, granted... but that also means no teams and it's not hard at all to hook up with a 4-6-8 way at all. I guess it depends on where you are. We are most certainly not a "maga" (sic) center.

Guess you've never been to Z-Hills! We jump with almost anybody.....

Dano

[rehmwa 2]

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Fun jumping belly flying is dead, if you want to belly fly you have to be into being one of those team weenies, you just can't show up on a nice weekend day anymore and get on a FUN 6-8-10-12-150-20 way, unless you jump at one of the big maga centers and even then you'll be hard pressed to get on a load.

Despite the obvious trolling by the OP.... Your post resonates with a lot of new jumpers too - not just your generation of jumpers. I think some of that is true. But calling it "fun" jumping is a clear bias and not accurate at all.

True part? The no expectations/no talent/air bath/flail about and stick your tongue out at your friends has been taken over by beginner freeflyers.

Strangely, a 'fun' old time belly jump and a 'fun' small freefly flail jump look a lot alike to me. Instability and lot of smiling. That's fine if you enjoy that. I do, in small doses.

people just fly a lot better than they used to and they have more expectations - the first place to bring your abilities up is on your belly, so that 'can' move to more intense training earlier in a skydiving career - so most of the hacks (those that choose to be so - and there's good reason to, especially for those that jump infrequently) shift earlier to freeflying for that reason. Though it's pretty clear that the really good freeflyers also like to accomplish more than just getting a(nother) picture of themselves with their tongue stuck out. So I tend to sort out people less by RW vs FF, rather by those that find it a joy to learn and improve vs those that just get joy from the jump itself and not the athletics of it. i.e., the athletes in the sport vs the hobbyists in the sport - both are cool, but both are very different.

and some of us think turning a shitload of points is a LOT more fun that watching someone with thousands of jumps 'still' struggle for stability for 10000 feet - and some of us think that doing new and complicated things successfully is a great deal of fun

we try to mix it up a bit at our dz and that helps - and it happens just about every single weekend

I like "fun" jumps with newbies - both RW and FF. But only as long as we both are learning. Someone that "claims" to only do "fun" jumps as an excuse to keep doing the same old tired shit jump after jump after jump, eventually won't get the time of day. And I won't feel guilty about it either. Other than the safety factor issue, it's also less fun as they make such a BIG DEAL about how relaxed and 'fun' they are compared to other (and they are very uptight about how relaxed they are).

It's not the discipline either, it's the mentality. I can find "fun" jumpers in all disciplines. Both the cool kind, and the uptight kind.

I recommend becoming proficient in multiple disciplines and doing whatever type of jump (unplanned, simple, or full bore planned/briefed/debriefed) you like. Opportunities open up when you can fly in any orientation. Opportunities (and fun) open up when you can fly serious, or fly recreation. And they are all 'fun'.

IMO - mocking, resenting, or calling "bullshit" on those that want to get good at skydiving (RW, Freefly, CrW, swooping, etc etc etc) is not the culture I'd like in an activity that provides so many challenges and options in areas to become better than just adequate. It's no longer a sport where the best of the best were the ones to make a baton handoff 3 out 5 tries.

Like it or not, it's not a 'stunt' anymore, it's a(bout 7 or 8) legitimate sports.

so there

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[champu 1]

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True part? The no expectations/no talent/air bath/flail about and stick your tongue out at your friends has been taken over by beginner freeflyers...

...I tend to sort out people less by RW vs FF, rather by those that find it a joy to learn and improve vs those that just get joy from the jump itself and not the athletics of it. i.e., the athletes in the sport vs the hobbyists in the sport - both are cool, but both are very different.

I was talking about this difference in distinction with a friend of mine yesterday. It's for this reason that I believe VFS will do less to bring freefliers to competitions, and more to bring competitive belly fliers to freeflying.

[rehmwa 2]

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I was talking about this difference in distinction with a friend of mine yesterday. It's for this reason that I believe VFS will do less to bring freefliers to competitions, and more to bring competitive belly fliers to freeflying.

agree - and as our disciplines become more of a mainstrain (no big deal) type of sport, those that are looking for a stunt, rather than a sport, will be drawn from the sport and more into BASE jumping.

until those all evolve again....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jumper03 0]

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Fun jumping belly flying is dead, if you want to belly fly you have to be into being one of those team weenies, you just can't show up on a nice weekend day anymore and get on a FUN 6-8-10-12-150-20 way, unless you jump at one of the big maga centers and even then you'll be hard pressed to get on a load.

Just look at this fourm & thread, 99% nothing but team bullshit.

you need to come jump at raeford then.

Scars remind us that the past is real

[jsaxton 0]

There were 150 at the Big Way camp.
On Sunday 2 of the three groups completed 49 ways.

There were a lot of jumpers on 'conditional acceptance' for the 100 Way camp the following weekend including a bunch of the Brit Chicks.

I'm hoping I get to be a late diver in the 100way camp so I can sit next to all the cute girls!

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Fun jumping belly flying is dead, if you want to belly fly you have to be into being one of those team weenies, you just can't show up on a nice weekend day anymore and get on a FUN 6-8-10-12-150-20 way,

I haven't been to a non-cessna DZ where it wasn't possible to put together a fun 4-8 way depending on who showed up.

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Just look at this fourm & thread, 99% nothing but team bullshit.

What's there to talk about? Figure out who's on the load, pick some formations, explain what the names mean to people who aren't formal FS people, optionally add a few piece moves, figure out the exit, dirt dive, jump, and repeat your planned sequence until you reach break-off altitude.

It's the greatest common denominator. You can take any reasonablly experienced set of skydivers who are dressed appropriately, plan something that actually involves being close enough to touch each other, and pull it off.

[KathleenL 0]

C'mon now. You know that fun belly jumping is alive and well at the Farm. Anthony Stone is out there alot organizing loads for all levels of jumpers. We have every level of jumper out there from big way guys to 4 way national and world medalist to beginners (like me). No one is left out and we really have a ton of fun.

[ltdiver 3]

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unless you jump at one of the big maga centers and even then you'll be hard pressed to get on a load.

Guess you haven't met Mark Brown, Darryld Light, Bob Fergason, etc who are our excellent L.O. guys, there every day making sure everyone is included and having fun. They leave nobody who wants to jump out of the action...

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[stratostar 5]

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Guess you haven't met Mark Brown, Darryld Light, Bob Fergason,

Yes I have and done a number of fun jumps with them while in Perris, and when @ The Farm I get on Stone loads or Andy ways.

There aways good fun jumps.

To get on good fun jumps I travel to places where you don't have to deal with any "bowling league style" wannabee's who all think their the next airspeed in training who show up and prance around expecting a whole dz to kiss their ass and worship the ground they walk on with all their special needs, like opening the dz early, passes @ 10K, debreif rooms at a dz that don't have that shit, setting up league meets at 182 dz's without informing them till the last minute and then, when two dzo's move around and do a bunch of shit to provide a turbine AC the 3 or 4 team decide the door on a beech 99 isn't good enough for them to run the meet, and they all pack up their shit and leave without regard for any of the bullshit people went through to get them a plane, let alone the other jumpers who showed up to jump a turbine and got watch the plane leave because the min. just walked out the door for a tail gate.

It's fucking jumping out of a plane, society as a whole could care less how many points you can turn, you make no major contributions to society, like a cure for cancer or AIDS. If asked to drop a student @ 3.5 k to help the dz out you reply " I have to concentrate" and then get pissed when someone dose a woohoo on take take off and spend the whole ride taking invisable grips and giving the evil eye to those who are having fun and bitch about the camera men who are in back filming tandems. Got news for you, no one gives a fuck about your special needs other then those DZO's who kiss your ass and stroke your ego.

It's people like this who are a major turn off to lowtimers and staff who have to deal with your "little league" meet for the day while you strut around acting like your hot shit, when in fact most will never medal at nationals or ever be the next airspeed.

Many of those I speak of could learn a lot from the Anthony Stones or Mark Browns, Darryld Light, Bob F.
Bob Strum, Larry Henderson, Scotty Carbone, Popsjumpers of the skydiving world. This one reason you see so many students get an A and want to hang with the free flyers and not want to do RW at a lot of dz's. People work real jobs and put up with uptight anal retentive pricks all week long and they go to the dz to HAVE FUN and make a few good jumps, swap a few lies over beers blow off all the bullshit of the real world, not bring it with them to the dz or deal with those types while there.

Yes there are still those places where fun jumping can be found and no one will cry about a wrong grip or someone going low or flying the wrong slot, but there getting harder to find in places with friendly faces.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[ltdiver 3]

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Yes I have and done a number of fun jumps with them while in Perris, and when @ The Farm I get on Stone loads or Andy ways.

There aways good fun jumps.

To get on good fun jumps I travel...

Glad you find fun jumping available at Perris and the Farm. I'm sure there are other places that we aren't mentioning as well here...

And to 'having to travel' to find what it acceptable...I know you're an excellent flyer...why don't you start creating fun groups where your home location is? Be a leader (call it an L.O. if you want) where you are? Be a giver and create a positive RW environment wherever you happen to be.

There will be other 'focused people' wherever you go. Let them have their fun. It's their dollar and time. Create something else for those who want to 'fun jump' with you!
ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[mdrejhon 8]

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Seems from looking at the boards and the general mentality that belly flying is nothing more than a necessary transition to freeflying. I am relatively new to the sport and I happen to love RW but it seems like a dieing art. What do you think?

Belly is dead at certain dropzones but belly seems to be getting more popular at other areas.

I just completed my first 49-way at Perris P3 last weekend. BEER TIME!