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siddacious

launching a bow from a king air

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In an attempt to try something new, my ad-hoc 4-way team has been trying to launch a bow from our DZ's kingair for around 8 jumps now, funneling it to differing degrees each time. We switched to a star (something we're all familiar with) and launched it twice now with almost no problems, even transitioning to the intended first point on the hill.

The way we've been doing it, the IC takes his grips on the point and OC while at the lineup, the OC has a grip on the point, and I (tail) take my leg grip on the OC, with the intent to take the other leg on the IC when he clears the door.

I know for my part, I'm not flying enough with my right hand until the IC rotates down towards me.

Any ideas or suggestions?
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The way we've been doing it, the IC takes his grips on the point and OC while at the lineup, the OC has a grip on the point, and I (tail) take my leg grip on the OC, with the intent to take the other leg on the IC when he clears the door.

I know for my part, I'm not flying enough with my right hand until the IC rotates down towards me.

Any ideas or suggestions?



use a different plane?;) I know that's probably not an option, but the King Air has to be the worst plane ever for 4-way.

2 thoughts... your point guy can grip the OC so the OC has both hands to hold the bar, which will help with prop-blast. And you (tail) are probably better off gripping IC in the door and taking OC on the way out instead of the other way around... getting into position is more awkward, but the OC won't be instantly 5 feet away like the IC is. There's no way you're going to get a grip on the IC right out the door consistantly by "flying enough". In an otter/caravan tail can head-jam and take both grips, but probably not in a King air.
"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

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use a different plane?;) I know that's probably not an option, but the King Air has to be the worst plane ever for 4-way.

2 thoughts... your point guy can grip the OC so the OC has both hands to hold the bar, which will help with prop-blast. And you (tail) are probably better off gripping IC in the door and taking OC on the way out instead of the other way around... getting into position is more awkward, but the OC won't be instantly 5 feet away like the IC is. There's no way you're going to get a grip on the IC right out the door consistantly by "flying enough". In an otter/caravan tail can head-jam and take both grips, but probably not in a King air.



Yea, changing planes isn't really an option. We love our DZ too much! Plus, we figure if we can nail exits out of a KA, we can nail 'em out of enything (well, maybe not a Pitts).

Gripping the IC in the door may be a bit tricky due to space constraints (head, 3 arms, chest, and a rig) , but I'll give it a try.
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we figure if we can nail exits out of a KA, we can nail 'em out of enything



Damn right you could!;)

Funny story on that note: way back my dad was training 8-way out in Alberta out of a small-door beech (basically the same door as a KA). At the time, the practice was to freefly the exit instead of launching the first point. As you can imagine, freeflying 8 people out of a door that small meant a lot of separation if you did anything wrong, but it was all they had so they figured out a way. They had this incredibly intricate exit... every foot and hand, every grip, every detail down to fractions of an inch... he said the group was so tight that the count was literally "inhale, exhale, explode out the door". Since they did exactly the same exit every time, it led to incredible consistancy, and as luck would have it, the canadian nationals were out of a small-door beech that year, which noone else had trained out of.

I guess the result was that this no-name team from alberta beat every team to the first point on almost every round, including the national champions... of course after the first point they sucked:D.

so who knows... learn it well, and maybe you can kick airspeed's ass if we ever have nationals out of a kingair.:P
"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

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we were sponsored by King Air DZ for a season and figured out every exit

first - like you are trying two out and two in like an otter H launch. Give the count to the IC and make sure he thinks hard about briskly getting his hips out first and down. Else it'll spread even if it come out and doesn't funnel. The point and OC need to be patient. The OC really should try to launch forward as well as out and the point has to be high and little late (sort of).

other - 3 out and one in. Put the point out and forward facing in. This way the IC has the whole door. OC has his leg and IC has his arm. It's a legal Bow.

we engineered almost all the exits to work 3 out and 1 in. But it's still doable 2 and 2 if the inside guys aren't too big and line up with the IC in the door middle and the point forward and a little behind (the whole thing needs to spring out pointing at the door more than pointing straight up jump run like from a bigger door. 3/1 you risk dragging the point out in order to allow the IC to clear in a timely launch. But it works still.

We were particularly good on our catacord and it surprised our coach one meet that we nailed it.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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other - 3 out and one in. Put the point out and forward facing in. This way the IC has the whole door. OC has his leg and IC has his arm. It's a legal Bow.



This sounds pretty much like what we're doing. I'm getting the feeling that the OC isn't launching sideways enough to let the IC present, and also that the point might be having trouble launching into position or is getting pulled around by the centers. I think we need to work on our timing and gymnastic maneuvers where appropriate.
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Launching a "mirrored" bow might help create more room in the door. By this I mean have the point all the way outside, the OC taking the point's right leg, and having the IC get the uppper grip of the point. I agree that having the tail flyer take the IC's leg is best, just hang as low in the door as possible (strait left arm) so you can exit with the group but have your own clean air right off the bat...
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sticks!

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I'm getting the feeling that the OC isn't launching sideways enough to let the IC present, and also that the point might be having trouble launching into position or is getting pulled around by the centers.



There's a bit of downflow off that low wing - that means you want to let it be really steep in the wind. Possibly your point isn't waiting to get high enough and steep enough - is it rolling under the front? Have him leave on pressure from the IC exiting and REALLY launch UP with that left leg. (it's like an OC exit - it's not something a point ever does so really emphasize the leg kick).

Your OC doesn't have very far to go, but also needs to open up, too - and launch a bit forward to counter the snatch. Both Point and OC could try a leg swing with the count to guarantee they are opening up with the wind.

you'll get it

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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have the point all the way outside, the OC taking the point's right leg, and having the IC get the uppper grip of the point. ...



left leg? - Isn't the King Air a left side door

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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we figure if we can nail exits out of a KA, we can nail 'em out of enything



Damn right you could!;)



Yep. I was once part of a 7 way that chunked successfully out of Mullins King Air. 5 floaters and 2 in the door. I was the last person out, reaching over the person in front of me with a grip on the OC's chest strap with my hand next to the hand of the person in front of me. I don't know how we did it, but it worked.... the only time we tried it! :)
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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There's a bit of downflow off that low wing - that means you want to let it be really steep in the wind. Possibly your point isn't waiting to get high enough and steep enough - is it rolling under the front? Have him leave on pressure from the IC exiting and REALLY launch UP with that left leg. (it's like an OC exit - it's not something a point ever does so really emphasize the leg kick).

Your OC doesn't have very far to go, but also needs to open up, too - and launch a bit forward to counter the snatch. Both Point and OC could try a leg swing with the count to guarantee they are opening up with the wind.

you'll get it



Methinks there is meat to this. I'm pretty sure the point was attempting to leave exactly with the OC. I do know that the point was getting blown down the hill (to the point of being side by side with the OC) on at least one of the stars. The bit about making it steep due to the down flow hadn't occurred to me.

Bah! Why isn't it sunday already?! I wanna give this stuff a try! Hopefully the guys aren't 'over' trying to launch the H. I'll also make sure we have the video guy be Rear Rear (on previous H attempts he was diving after us because he was getting used to his gear) so we at least can have a look at what is going on with the exit.

Thanks much! Very insightful.
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I'm pretty sure the point was attempting to leave exactly with the OC.



If the point launches UP and opens to the flow, that timing adjustment isn't necessary. Just make sure to allow it to be as steep as the hill.

Most points leave from the inside of the plan. So doing a OC-style exit is not comfortable and I find many don't use nearly enough springiness.

If the point is going 'over the top' and ending up right next to OC, this could cause it. The other thing that I've found causes it is the OC dropping off and pulling the point over. He does need to think launch out and -forward- a bit to counter the wind snatch. (I learned it last year from a Fastrax member and we applied the same concept to our IC -he accounts for the snatch by launching out and back since that's the way the OC and tail will be moving when the IC finally clears the plane- our launches now have zero rotation.)

good luck - It's our off season right now.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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have the point all the way outside, the OC taking the point's right leg, and having the IC get the uppper grip of the point. ...



left leg? - Isn't the King Air a left side door


Ack - I was thinking the OC's 'left hand'. Not the point's right leg. Of course it's the point's right leg.

(I'm an OC, so of course everything is OC-centric :P)

sorry Ben

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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