Nationals post-mortem

[nitrox100 0]

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When it's posted at the loading area, -and- you've asked the Meet Director and been denied, it's nice to know you -can- go higher up.

Furthermore it was spoken to at length by Bryan Burke during the briefing for competitors. To paraphrase he said something like:

We have been doing 4 teams per pass on practice day and it has been working out so that is what we will do. There will be plane dropping competitors every 4 minutes and there will be fun jumpers on a parallel but offset jump run throughout the day. Go arounds will not be an option so be quick in the door.

Again this is paraphrased from memory so I apologize for any error in it. My point is that the no second pass under any circumstance mentality was drilled in from before the meet even began.

Next year with Nationals in Ottawa a long spot East will mean you are on the wrong side of the river. When that happens you may make it back but you better not have a mal or it can be another canopy gone down the river. But I have every confidence in the SDC team putting on a great event. I believe they did a 2 team 2 pass arrangement last time.

[ltdiver 3]

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Furthermore it was spoken to at length by Bryan Burke during the briefing for competitors. To paraphrase he said something like:

Thanks for the update. Some of us were in the Cameraflyer briefing where another bone of contention was being presented. ALL images (video and stills) were to be the property of USPA...

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[elightle 8]

Okay, I just gotta chime in here. Those in positions of leadership should not make their first reactions all-out defensive. They should listen with an open mind and not criticize those constituents they represent. They should offer alternatives for making things better and not be afraid to admit that they could have done some things a little better.

Blue Skies to All!
Ed Lightle

[rehmwa 2]

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Next year with Nationals in Ottawa a long spot East will mean you are on the wrong side of the river.

I think the fair weather DZ teams will be surprised. On a good and windy day, there will be plenty of time for 4 teams per pass with a nice and safe delay between groups.

This is more likely than no wind days for a midwest DZ. Spotting and exit separation will be a nice topic to review before next year's comps.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Furthermore it was spoken to at length by Bryan Burke during the briefing for competitors. To paraphrase he said something like:

Thanks for the update. Some of us were in the Cameraflyer briefing where another bone of contention was being presented. ALL images (video and stills) were to be the property of USPA...

ltdiver

From the SCM Section 10-4:

5. HOST agrees and acknowledges that, except as otherwise mutually agreed upon in writing, USPA owns all rights to
the EVENT including the commercial exploitation of sound and visual images of the EVENT.

6. HOST shall ensure that USPA has, free of charge, full access to all sound and/or visual images of the EVENT for its
own archival and promotional purposes and shall have the right to make its own recordings of the EVENT.

7. HOST must require videographers to sign an agreement that USPA can use all video material recorded at the
EVENT for the promotional use by USPA.

I don't know the history of these clauses in the agreement (Larry Bagley would), but I do know that Perris did have a release form on this at it's Nationals, so it really should not have been news to you. A FF photographer at Eloy told me he did not sign a release, so I don't know what SDA did. If you don't like the rules, talk to the Comp. Comm.

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DiveMaker

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Okay, I just gotta chime in here. Those in positions of leadership should not make their first reactions all-out defensive. They should listen with an open mind and not criticize those constituents they represent. They should offer alternatives for making things better and not be afraid to admit that they could have done some things a little better.

Blue Skies to All!
Ed Lightle

The excerpt from Larry Hill that Betsy posted did mention that he had tried giving out awards as soon as possible and also tried awards at the end of the meet. He has run a lot of Nationals and World Meets. For reasons that you and I do not understand, Larry says awards at the end of the meet work better.
I don't agree with that, but I would not say Larry is blowing you off.
It could be that at World Meets it makes more sense to give the awards out at the end and for Nationals the awards should be given out asap, but maybe Larry does not see that difference.

Part of this controversy is self-inflicted too. SDA has excellent weather in October. SDA has a gazillion planes to put up jumpers at rates that saturate the airspace. Now suppose Nationals was at a place with a marginal forecast of good jumpable weather (think Muskogee). The Meet Director would run a few rounds of 4-way, then switch to 8-way, then 10-way, then 16-way. Then go back to 4-way. IOW, they'd have to string out the 4-way event over many more days. I think most competitors would like their event to be completed in a few days, as opposed to being strung out over a week.

So if you have a meet at a place that can get an event wrapped up in two days vs a place that needs to string events out over a week, you have in the first case having to deal with people complaining about the awards not being timely and in the second case you have people complaining that the event took a whole week's worth of vacation time.

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DiveMaker

[marks2065 0]

i think what these people want is to be notified ahead of time if there are changes to the way things are done to plan for it - showing up and finding out or finding out at the last minute before showing up is to late - intinery of the event should be posted early enough so resevations and plane tickets can be aranged early to get the discounts. finding out after is to late and agrivating

[MakeItHappen 15]

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i think what these people want is to be notified ahead of time if there are changes to the way things are done to plan for it - showing up and finding out or finding out at the last minute before showing up is to late - intinery of the event should be posted early enough so resevations and plane tickets can be aranged early to get the discounts. finding out after is to late and agrivating

This was posted a long time ago.
see Nats Schedule

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Make It Happen
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DiveMaker

[kallend 1,619]

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When it's posted at the loading area, -and- you've asked the Meet Director and been denied, it's nice to know you -can- go higher up.

Furthermore it was spoken to at length by Bryan Burke during the briefing for competitors. To paraphrase he said something like:

We have been doing 4 teams per pass on practice day and it has been working out so that is what we will do. There will be plane dropping competitors every 4 minutes and there will be fun jumpers on a parallel but offset jump run throughout the day. Go arounds will not be an option so be quick in the door.

Again this is paraphrased from memory so I apologize for any error in it. My point is that the no second pass under any circumstance mentality was drilled in from before the meet even began.

Next year with Nationals in Ottawa a long spot East will mean you are on the wrong side of the river. When that happens you may make it back but you better not have a mal or it can be another canopy gone down the river. But I have every confidence in the SDC team putting on a great event. I believe they did a 2 team 2 pass arrangement last time.

SDC, as a general rule, does not fly jump runs to the east for just that reason. When the uppers are out of the east they fly crosswind runs. The landing area is huge, too.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[bob.dino 0]

ltdiver states that they were told that USPA owned all video & stills.

The SCM except you posted states that USPA owned all rights to commercial exploitation of event video & stills.

There's a significant difference.

[ltdiver 3]

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ltdiver states that they were told that USPA owned all video & stills.

The SCM except you posted states that USPA owned all rights to commercial exploitation of event video & stills.

There's a significant difference.

Thank you for your delineation of the issue to Jan. You understand the issue, bob.dino.

Signing out from this thread now. See you guys in SDC!
ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Joellercoaster 6]

There has been a lot of focus on what the motivations are for the winners to want to be presented with their medals when everyone is around.

You can impugn their motives all you like, but what about all the other competitors - who aren't on the dais - who still want to be part of the crowd cheering to see someone reap the reward for all the hard work they all put in?

No glory hounds there. The community spirit between competitors is real, and it sounds like someone missed a trick there.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[MakeItHappen 15]

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There has been a lot of focus on what the motivations are for the winners to want to be presented with their medals when everyone is around.

You can impugn their motives all you like, but what about all the other competitors - who aren't on the dais - who still want to be part of the crowd cheering to see someone reap the reward for all the hard work they all put in?

No glory hounds there. The community spirit between competitors is real, and it sounds like someone missed a trick there.

Your reading comprehension needs improvement. I too think SDA should have awarded medals as soon as possible.

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DiveMaker

[rehmwa 2]

That's a great comment. When watching the judging of teams just one or two points either side of us, we were cheering on just as strongly for these guys to 'close those last 3 randoms' before time ran out.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[TalbertGK4 0]

What the fuck are the "Nationals"?

[pr0ject42 0]

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What the fuck are the "Nationals"?

A dog and pony show.

[udder 0]

Amen.

Wendy comparing a sport where someone with enough money could become a world champion in 2 years to Olympic Sports is a bit farcical.

The arguement about crowds is pretty funny. If their achievements were that important to the crowd, the crowd would stay and watch. And making people wait a week so they can collect medals is a joke. Thats blatantly tyring to milk the last cent out of everyone.

"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E