nightcrew17 1 #1 February 8, 2003 hello, this is for my first rig, and I'm trying to figure out what the dolphin has/doesn't have against the Wings rig. On this website, http://www.para-service.com/ the dolphin 2000 is listed a $790, and the wings would be $840. Also as part of the package, i would get a Tempo reserve from PISA, and a 9-cell ZP Hornet main. Are those good canopies for beginners, the wingload will be close to 1.0 if not less. Thanks alot for your guys/gals advice, you save me from the frustration that comes with shopping. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #2 February 8, 2003 Talk to local jumpers and riggers and get their opinion of different gear. I know some people that hate every rig out ther but by having them be able to physically point out on the gear what they don't like you can make a more informed decision. As for the Wings/Dolpin its all what you want to get out of a rig. You can also look for a Genaro from RI for another inexpensive rig option. Just a side note, there are only a few options on some of the less expensive models. I've almost got more cost in options then I do in the container on an order form in font of me right now. $550 for options and $750 for the container. Little things add up quick. First rig should always be used.... LOTS of reasons for this. Edit: Used gear and spellingYesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #3 February 8, 2003 Nice post Phree I won't comment on the parachutes. I' have no information on a Hornet. Wings and Dolphins are in 2 different categories. If for only 50 more you can get a Wings, then I'd say do it. PhreeZone had a great point about talking to a local rigger so he/she can physically point out the differences. Options, as pointed out above, are a different story. If you get the base model Wings, pay the extra to get a collapsible pilot chute. Other than that, it's all up to you. Also, don't rule out the possibility of used equipment. Good luckMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #4 February 8, 2003 Wings definitely out-shines all of the dolphins i've seen in terms of overall quality, both in workmanship and rig design. Also your wings will most likely retain its resale value much better than a dolphin. I also think wings look nicer, and if i wanted a rig with a pop-top, i'd probably own one. Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #5 February 8, 2003 Sunrise Rigging (Wings) has some of the best customer service around. Enough said? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoby 0 #6 February 8, 2003 For what it's worth, I have a Dolphin/Hornet/Tempo. I got the container used for next to nothing and I'm happy enough with it for now, but if I was buying new, there is no way I'd pick it over the Wings The Wings looks and feels like a quality rig and is totally customized. The Dolphin looks, and is, cheap and generic. It's servicable, but you'll be happier with something else, and will get better resale to boot. The Hornet is my first canopy and I certainly feel it suits me. It has enough performance to keep me interested, but I feel it is within my somewhat limited ability level. I think I will be jumping it for a long time to come. I feel utterly comfortable under it and don't hesistate to recommend it. Keep in mind, though, that it won't be in production for much longer, so don't spend too much time thinking about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #7 February 8, 2003 Sounds like a good deal. Grab it! Both Tempos and Hornets are good canopies. We use Tempo 170 - 250 reserves in all our student gear. We loan Hornet 190s to our PFF grads. A Hornet wsould be fine for a junior jumper as long as you keep the wing loading light. As for the choice between Dolphin and Wings .... the dude is offering you a killer deal on the Wings. Grab the Wings! Normally top of the lone containers like Wings retail for twice as much as Dolphins. Dolphins are simple and basic and will keep you alive for thousands of jumps, but they don't have much flash, or re-sale value. Wings, on the other hand are slightly better built, slightly more comfortable, slightly easier to pack and have way more flash! Oh, and Wings have a much higher re-sale value. If I were buying a container today, Wings would be my first choice. Dolphins are pretty far down my list, after Generas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #8 February 8, 2003 PISA is no more and those canopies are no longer made. It's now a part of Aerodyne http://www.aerodyne-int.com/ There's more info about the new company and a price list under the Aerodyne Renaissance thread, here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=372520;search_string=pia%20price;#372520 Blue Skies -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #9 February 8, 2003 Quote If I were buying a container today, Wings would be my first choice. From you, that's quite an endorsement! I'm slowly becoming a member of the Wings lovefest on this site. Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bwilling 0 #10 February 8, 2003 I own a Dolphin 2000, purchased new a couple of years ago (I'm 6' 3" and about 230lbs, I bought new only because I couldn't find anything used that fit me at the time)... If I had it to do over again, I would pay the extra money to get the Wings (kicks self in ass again ), which is definitely the more freefly friendly of the two containers, other quality issues aside (and I've had no quality or customer service issues with my Dolphin). But as far as resale value goes, I paid so little for my Dolphin, that even if I gave it away, I don't think I'd be taking a bigger financial hit than the people that bought new optioned out Javelins or Mirages that they subsequently sold as used... "If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #11 February 8, 2003 I have a dolphin and I don't like how it looks but here is what I like: -simple design -rigger friendly -a dolphin -cheap -you play with the closing loop and you can fit ALOT of canopies (smallers will make it look uglier but it can still fit) -EXCELLENT customer service, send mine for a repair and I got it back the next day. -if you are buying new you can get it in a week of wait. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #12 February 8, 2003 Quote Quote If I were buying a container today, Wings would be my first choice. From you, that's quite an endorsement! I'm slowly becoming a member of the Wings lovefest on this site. Well, i said wings over dolphin...... Infinity is still my first choice. :) Best riser protection bar none (that i've seen), main flap you can lift the rig with (literally), good looks, comfy fit, good service and also quite affordable. and no i have no affiliation with VSE, other than owning one of their rigs Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickfri59 0 #13 February 9, 2003 I initially ordered a Dolphin, because of the base price. As someone has already pointed out, when you start adding options, the price goes up quick. For example: After adding the following options to the Dolphin:two colored panels, dive lops on the main risers, and upgraded riser covers, I was beyond the price of a Wings. The Wings has everything I waanted included in the base price, plus I got to color the hell out of it. Wings website has a neat feature that enables you to see what the rig looks like after selecting the color combinations you pick. The time from order to getting the rig is eight weeks. I should have it by the end of February. But for me that wasn't a big deal because we're buried in snow probably 'till mid-March. I believe I'm getting a better container, the colors are custom, and for $20 less than teh D I had originally ordered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #14 February 9, 2003 I'd personally perfer the Wings to the Dolphin. The construction on the Wings seems superior. I'm not shooting down the Dolphin, it was my first container, but if the price point is close I'd go for the Wings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoby 0 #15 February 9, 2003 QuoteBut as far as resale value goes, I paid so little for my Dolphin, that even if I gave it away, I don't think I'd be taking a bigger financial hit than the people that bought new optioned out Javelins or Mirages that they subsequently sold as used... Yeah, I got my Dolphin/Tempo/Cypres for about what I was expecting to pay for a used reserve and Cypres, so I see any use I get out of it as on the house. I don't expect to get much at all when I sell it, and I'm going to have to do that when I start freeflying in earnest. Still...it fits well, it's as comfy as anything I've jumped, and it's safe. But I would never buy one new... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyboy62000 0 #16 February 9, 2003 Just to throw out my two cents on these rigs and canopies. First, I've jumped both the Dolphin and Wings rigs and the Hornet main. I currently own a Wings rig with Stiletto 120 main and Raven reserve. As far as deciding between the rigs is concerned, well it really depends on what you want out of it. Both are good, quality rigs that will last. The Dolphin is a very base model rig that is much less freefly friendly than the Wings (just ask 6 or so of my friends that have had prematures while freeflying a dolphin, none I know of on any of my friends' wings rigs). If you are primarily going to be doing RW and want to save some money then the dolphin is a great rig. If you want more customization and freefly friendliness then the Wings is where it's at, but for a bit more money. IMHO the Wings is the best bang for the buck rig I've seen yet. I've had no complaints with mine. As far as the canopies go, the Hornet is a good zp main canopy. It's a nice docile retangular canopy that seems to open consistently, if a little harder than my stiletto. I like the landings, I've found they're comparable to other somewhat similar canopies like the Sabre or Pro-Series. I don't have any rides on a Tempo so I can't comment on it's flight but I've packed a few and can comment on the canopy itself. I'm a Raven and PD reserve fan, but the tempo will do what it's designed to do if you need it, and has for many people. Pardon the long post, but I hope it helps in your decision on your new rig. Blue Skies, AdamBlue Skies, Adam I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . — Antoine de Saint-Exupéry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #17 February 9, 2003 QuoteThe Dolphin is a very base model rig that is much less freefly friendly than the Wings (just ask 6 or so of my friends that have had prematures while freeflying a dolphin, none I know of on any of my friends' wings rigs). kind of serves them right for freeflying a rig that is NOT freefly friendly....no offense to your friends...but if you know a rig is not suited for high speed, multi dimensional flight...why the hell are you jumping it????? and then are surprised when you are suddenly yanked up by the thing.... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #18 February 9, 2003 The Dolphins in question had the tuck tab riser covers and they came open and the majority of the issues were just plain worn out BOC's. That can happen on any rig.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyblu 0 #19 February 10, 2003 My last container was a Wings. I loved it! In my opinion you can't go wrong with Wings . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #20 February 10, 2003 I own a Dolphin D-1 with a Tempo 150 and a Viper 135. My first canopy on that rig was a Hornet 150 that is a great canopy, period. There is only one problem with the Dolphin, it's ugly as hell. I don't buy the fact that is not FF friendly. Maybe older ones. I took my rig in any position and everything stayed where it is supposed to be. My next container is going to be a Wings though just because I like the way it looks and their sizes fit my next choice better than any other rig.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
totalwreck 0 #21 February 10, 2003 Hey nightcrew -- I ordered the wings/hornet/tempo (+ Cypres) package from Rigs & Things last year as my first rig and LOVE IT! The container looks and fits great (lots of compliments at the DZ) and the hornet is a great canopy to fly (OK, I don't have all that much experience, but I have fun with it and it seems comparable to the Sabres I have flown). AND (and this is important for a newbie like me), the hornet is very easy to pack: apparently the fabric used in the hornet is somewhat different from other ZP fabrics. I was afraid of tackling a ZP canopy after packing Mantas as a student, but in short order I got the hang of it and can easily corral it into the bag. There is some talk about PISA (and therefore the hornet) being no more, so you may want to make a decision soon. Finally, Roy at Rigs and Things takes great care of you and makes sure you are completely satisfied with your order. I wholeheartedly recommend purchasing from Rigs and Things. Good luck. Let us know what you decide. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #22 February 11, 2003 Me? Wings, hands down every time. If I ever buy another container it will be a Wings with cut-in laterals and all the wingsuit mods. Affordable, great looking, good customer service. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #23 February 11, 2003 I've jumped a Dolphin my whole career. I like the rig for it's value. Colors are not a big deal to me. With that said, many peeps at my DZ have purchased WINGS containers. The new Dolphins are free-fly friendly. I've got two rigs, both Dolphins, one old style with velcro tabs and no riser protection. one new, with full riser protection. If you want the cheapest and colors aren't a big deal, go with the Dolphin. For a little more $$'s and more color choices, go with WINGS. Both are good values for your hard earned $$'s IMHO "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbrasher 0 #24 February 11, 2003 Take a look at Rigging Innovations Genera. Red, White and Blue Skies, John T. Brasher D-5166 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #25 February 11, 2003 QuoteThe Dolphin is a very base model rig that is much less freefly friendly than the Wings (just ask 6 or so of my friends that have had prematures while freeflying a dolphin, none I know of on any of my friends' wings rigs). That is quite a blanket statement ... can you provide the cause of these premature deployments? I had one in a stand flying a dolpin -- but the problem was that the mouth of the boc had become too loose. That is my fault, not the containers. Blaming 6 premature openings on one type of container without providing any factual evidence is not constructive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
