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fmmobley

Going low on formation - stay or track away?

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If someone goes low on a formation and will not be able to get back in; does he stick around where the others can see him until the predetermined time to break; or does he go ahead and track away early and get out of their hair?

Recently I have heard conflicting answers to this question from people I highly respect.
... Marion

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I've always been told to continue doing your best to get back up to the formation but if you can't to stay with the formation until the pre-determined breakoff and then track for all your worth.
Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

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If they track away early, it often happens that they will either:

1) track for a normal length of time and then hover/hang out until pull altitude, allowing the rest of the group to track a normal length of time, and end up right over the top = bad situation.

2) track away for the entire rest of the skydive, allowing themselves to go into the vertical space of a group that exited before or after (please don't depend on being able to track across the jump run) = bad situation.

Either way, the rest of the group is left wondering where the low jumper went, instead of being able to see that the low guy is "right there still struggling to get back up".

There is absolutely no question which is the correct answer, please do not accept any other opinion on this subject.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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(please don't depend on being able to track across the jump run) = bad situation.



Why do you say this. i rely on being able to do this everytime i do a tracking dive. everytime i have relyed on this for tracking purposes i have ended up a long way from everyone else.

Life is Great. Even Greater what we do with it.

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(please don't depend on being able to track across the jump run) = bad situation.



Why do you say this. i rely on being able to do this everytime i do a tracking dive. everytime i have relyed on this for tracking purposes i have ended up a long way from everyone else.



It's a lot easier to get yourself perpendicular to the jump run when you are doing so straight out of the plane. If you are in a formation, although the organiser will try their hardest to remain on heading along flight-line, but formations can turn, so you may not know what perpendicular to jump run is anymore if you have gone low.

tash
Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe

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Regardless of what's right or wrong here, it's most important that everyone on the load have the same plan. So simple to just lay it out on the pre-brief.

It's not just about the person who is out, but about everyone else on the load too. So best just to have no confusion or conflicts.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Why do you say this. i rely on being able to do this everytime i do a tracking dive. everytime i have relyed on this for tracking purposes i have ended up a long way from everyone else.


Are you sure that everyone you jump with on a four way flat has the same ability...?...everyone..?

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[It's a lot easier to get yourself perpendicular to the jump run when you are doing so straight out of the plane. If you are in a formation, although the organiser will try their hardest to remain on heading along flight-line, but formations can turn, so you may not know what perpendicular to jump run is anymore if you have gone low.



?? I agree about sticking around until planned breakoff, but I don't understand this.

Shouldn't skydivers know the direction of jumprun? Even without knowing on a particular flight, the 4 DZs I know best go one of two directions and it's not hard to go 90 degrees off it. The runway is a big tipoff at 3 of them.

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The simplest answer is.....dont go low. ;)

And at your level, dont get yourself in a skydive thats OVER YOUR HEAD.

Keep a simple plan for the skydive and you shouldn't have any problem seeing all the other jumpers in your 2 WAY.
There shouldn't be any reason to track off, instead just have them come down to you as you work on getting back up to them. :)
Start working on your fall rate adjustment techniques with smaller groups until you can get to where your good enough to go bigger, then you have no problems getting back up to a formation after you F'd up.... [:/]




Be safe.
Ed
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

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I was in the same situation when I had 38 jumps when I did a 6 way...We turned a point and I got low. What they told me was this...make sure you are able to located the formation and communicate...I did a 90 degree turn...turned my head and looked up at them they pointed where they wanted me to track to and I gave a hand signal confirmation...therefore everybody was safe and everybody knew where everyone else was.

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I was in the same situation when I had 38 jumps when I did a 6 way...We turned a point and I got low. What they told me was this...make sure you are able to located the formation and communicate...I did a 90 degree turn...turned my head and looked up at them they pointed where they wanted me to track to and I gave a hand signal confirmation...therefore everybody was safe and everybody knew where everyone else was.



That may work on a 6 way but it won't work on a 40 way.

I HATE the idea that anyone tracks off early. That almost guarantees that many people on the same side of the formation won't know where you are because you were behind them when you tracked away.

In my experience people who habitually go low are also not great trackers, and even after leaving early can be overtaken by a good tracker who simply doesn't know the low guy is down there until he sees the canopy blossoming in his face.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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In my experience people who habitually go low are also not great trackers, and even after leaving early can be overtaken by a good tracker who simply doesn't know the low guy is down there until he sees the canopy blossoming in his face.



Now here is the good comment. Similar skills and body awareness to track and to float up.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Just want to clarify this for myself. You say you ALWAYS know the direction of jumprun?



Didn't use that word, but generally yes. At Hollister, Skydance, and Monterey, I should always know where 90 degrees is. Should know the direction as well. I can appreciate that in a larger group, may not have the time to look out the window, but that doesn't seem like good practice.

I may need to qualify the answer on Elsinore - haven't been there enough to know all the jumprun variations, esp when a second pass is required. Same with Perris.

---
Kallend's remark that low fliers tend to track poorly was interesting, and seems very true. May not have booties on the jumpsuit either. Seems like a good reason for us anvil tending types to be very cautious on increasing the size of the group.

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when you go low rule of thumb i use is get out from under the formation. stay out side the formation on your rades. at break off (on the frist wave if you have more than one break off wave) turn 180 of the center of the formtion and start track away with a flat track. then come out clear you air behind you wave off and pull at preplan pull alt.

but on bigger formation 50+ the organier will have a break off plan with a plan for people that go low
the best way not to go low is dress for the formation.
the big the formation the slow it will fall. when i go
to big way camp I bring all my jump suits i have 7 suits. one a high drag suit for slots last rows to a skin tiet suit when I am in the base.
----------------------------------------------
All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you. J. R. T.

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but on bigger formation 50+ the organier will have a break off plan with a plan for people that go low



To me, I don't see why it needs to be a (typ) 50+ to have a plan. Best to share a plan for anything bigger than a solo.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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There should not be conflicting answers to this very simple question.

If once you are under the formation for whatever reason (the formation is too slow or you are too fast or just because of a screwed up exit, etc) you have only one and only one job... get out of the way of the formation (yes, there the red zone is red under the group as well) and get up. You are looking all the time to the formation and float as strong as you can.

When for example 50+ friends are doing their best to make a good skydive you do not just track away.

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You are looking all the time to the formation and float as strong as you can.

When for example 50+ friends are doing their best to make a good skydive you do not just track away.



Unfortunateley, I have been the person low on a formation and what I did was slow fall as much as possible, all the while being aware of the formation.
As soon as the first wave tracked off, I tracked and tracked until pull time of 2,500ft and not higher.

I have been on formations where people have gone low and they are buzzing around. The scariest was when I was in the base and a guy went low - I clocked him go low and kept an eye on him. I tracked off at my time and I saw him track back towards me (I am tracking towards the dz) and I had no idea of what he was doing - nor did he. Luckily, due to my awareness of people around me and the person who had gone low, helped out!!!

Liz

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Zoltan,

Thanks for reminding everybody that there is only ONE unequivocal answer - and that is to stay off to the side out of the red zone (where other jumpers are making final approaches) and track off with the first wave. I remember jumping on a record attempt years ago and being told to track like I'd never tracked before. I tracked farther than anybody on the load and it made me feel good (and safe).

Blues to All!
Ed Lightle B|

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Good for you :) I still prefer to fight for being the part of a formation then giving up and tracking away.



Do you mean then or than?
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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Sorry, Zoltan, I didn't make myself clear. I didn't give up early getting back up; I just tracked like crazy when the first wave broke off. By the way, your grammar's fine. "Then," "than," who cares as long as you get your point across, right?

Blues,
- Ed -

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