drill dives for 4way

[zhark 0]

Hi

We're a relatively new junior team going to compete for the first time next month. I was wondering what the best drill dives for our level is. (Jump numbers 300/200/75/1000)

Got some info from 4way.org and we are currently doing the following quite successfully:

1. No contact star alternating hands in centre for stability
2. No contact star /stairstep / stairstep / star /stairstep (alternating)
3. No contact star / donut / donut

We then repeat the above dives taking grips.

Any suggestions for building on that? Any other relatively simple drills that we can work on before taking it to randoms?

We don't have a coach, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jacques

[btucker 0]

Others will tell you to get a coach, so I'll leave that to them...


It's impressive you've been doing no contact dives – they often turn into speed (freefall speed) races and everyone get's maxed out.

Sounds like your more than ready for randoms, but you've got to build the pictures and communication with your opposites.


I assume your getting video -

1.Simple randoms – four pointers. I'd draw them but reject the draw if it is too hard or too unfamiliar. Consider doing the same jump again that day – once everyone has seen the real picutres.

2.Drill dive randoms – choose small thing to big thing. Bipole to hammer* is an extreme case.

3.Pick the occasional block and do it for fun – get to know the dive pool and have fun with it.

4. Keep stats so you know whats going on and what you need to work on.

5. Work the team dynamic. Make sure you all have the SAME goals.

Have Fun
Rotate through all your exits
Search dz.com for personal notes
Build an atsomsphere where its okay to make a mistake – that's why we train – when I fuck up my team mates are thinking “hahahaha glad that's not me, he's screwed!”


* randoms, but I'd also [slowy] introduce building top of block randoms. If you don't build the top of block exactly right the block will be shit.




Blues Benno

[dgskydive 0]

Here are a few fun dives that we use for stop drills or to warm up in the tunnel.

B-O-H-E-F (I love this dive)

C-A-B-J-F

D-A-N-B-C (this is our suck up dive to B.C.)

Or how about the all encompassing alaphabet dive A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H-J-K-L-M-N-O-P-Q. (this one works your brain. I always try to go to "I")

Dom

[DrewGPM 0]

Those are some great dive suggestions...but...Since you a new team, I would not suggest doing that many points. Start with 3 randoms, then working your way up to 4 and 5 points.

http://www.ivanpeters.com/ is a great dive generator. Choose the NSL Rookie setting. It defaults to 4 skydives of 3 randoms. There is a link at the bottom for you to print them.

One thing I wish Ivan eould change is the exit for that class. I suggest limiting your exit point to Stairstep Diamond or Meeker. They are pretty solid exits, so you waste time recovering from a botched launch. They will help your team get used to the count and leaving together.

Try those dives once with no contact, then again with grips.

Also, spend plenty of time on the creepers before you jump each one. Focus on the angles and maintaining eye contact.

[dgskydive 0]

differences of opinion on howman points they should do one a dive i guess.

If they plan to compete at Nationals, there is no rookie class and they may be better of (at east in my mind) training for the end reslut they are looking for.

As a rookie team they will only do 3 points, at the Nationals they will be doing 4 and 5 poiint dives. May as well start with that mind set. If they can knock out 4 and 5 point dives they will have no problem with a 3 pointer.

Dom

[DrewGPM 0]

Quote

...going to compete for the first time next month. I was wondering what the best drill dives for our level is. (Jump numbers 300/200/75/1000)...

I made my comment based on the fact that one person has 75 jumps and the first comp is next month.

If the team plans to compete at Nationals, they will need to work quickly. Get through the randoms ASAP. Then move on to the A class blocks, then the AA blocks. That would prepare them for Nationals this season. I'd be very impressed if they did that. It will require a lot of training jumps to get there...but god bless them if they can do it.

[Albatross 0]

Drew I think that you have the right approach. That is assuming tha they do not have unlimited funds and access to a wind tunnel.

Get 2-3 exits I would suggest a sidebody as well, that you can nail reliably. ntermediate may not be won on Exits but it sure is lost.

Next do stop drills or no contact dives with 3-4 points. The focus i NOT on getting many points but making good move and flying your slot, being on level and maintaining eye contact. Once you can do that reliably then move on to grip sequencing and finally syncronicity of keys. After ALL Of that start the bolcks.
It seems like a pin and a lot of work to not go fast. But they are the basics and 23 point ave are only the basics done REALLY well and very fast.

Chris

[zhark 0]

Quote

As a rookie team they will only do 3 points, at the Nationals they will be doing 4 and 5 poiint dives. May as well start with that mind set. If they can knock out 4 and 5 point dives they will have no problem with a 3 pointer.

Thanks for the suggestions! We will only need to do 3 point randoms. We have done occasional 4 point random jumps, but that was before we had to replace a team member who dropped out 2 weeks ago. (Hence the situation we're in now...it was our senior member, so we're not in such bad shape as we could have been!)

Hopefully next week we'll do out first random jump. This weekend didn't work out too well, since one team member hurt her arm (dunno how) and it rained today. Only managed 2 jumps

[zhark 0]

Quote

If the team plans to compete at Nationals, they will need to work quickly. Get through the randoms ASAP. Then move on to the A class blocks, then the AA blocks. That would prepare them for Nationals this season. I'd be very impressed if they did that. It will require a lot of training jumps to get there...but god bless them if they can do it.

Aaargh - no blocks!! We like them and wish we could do them, but just not right now! We're in South Africa, so we're not going to "Nationals", but going to do the local Nationals thing here....not quite as hardcore....

[zhark 0]

Quote

Drew I think that you have the right approach. That is assuming tha they do not have unlimited funds and access to a wind tunnel.

lol - unfortunately no access to wind tunnel. We're hoping to make a trip next year for a bit of team training holliday...

Question, what are "stop drills"? We were wonder whether it was a good idea to do "no contact randoms" and what the merit in that would be....maybe something like E O H....?

Thanks everyone for the great advice so far...you've no idea how much you're helping!!!

[daveb 1]

Quote

We were wonder whether it was a good idea to do "no contact randoms" and what the merit in that would be....

No contact drills are an approximation for stop drills, and are commonly used to break a team of "gripitis", and force them focus on falling relative to one another. I prefer stop drills to no-contact drills simply because gripping is a (the?) central theme of RW -- formations are exclusively identified by the grips -- and stop drills fully incorporate no-contact flying while still allowing for the defining grips, as well as the communication inherent to grips on/grips off.

Quote

Question, what are "stop drills"?

The key to speed in RW is getting everyone motionless -- stopped. From that stopped position, you can easily pick up grips because neither you nor the grip is moving. It is also much easier to initiate a move when stopped, than countering your current momentum with additional input.

The stop drill simply teaches (or reinforces) this fundamental skill. The RW mantra is "move-stop-grips". This is commonly blurred into a single "get grips as soon as possible", leading to alot of funk in the skydive. Ironically, by emphasing the stop portion, focus is placed on the move and grips parts, because they are now separate, distinct, and easy to identify and diagnose in video review.

So, how to do a stop drill? Simply take any skydive, and enforce the rule that you cannot pick up a grip until you and the grip are completely static and on the same level. Even better is to broaden the rule so that the entire team is static and level -- this will help to build synchronous grips, everybody on and off at the same moment. Take as much time as necessary to wait for movement to stop. Then everyone on grips, everyone off grips, move to the next formation, stop, repeat until breakoff.

Your first few attempts will likely feel glacial, and you'll feel a need to get the grip and move on. Your score for that dive will go down, and you'll come face-to-face with the thought "I'm a better skydiver than that! I can do many more points, just watch me!" Resist that strong temptation!

I cannot emphasize how important this overlooked skill and drill are. Speed flows from this basic concept. When your skydives start to feel junky and grippy, stop drills are the cure. The top teams in the world will, every so often, dedicate entire days to stop drills. Note in particular that the pauses before everyone picks up grips can be vanishingly short - assuming everyone is static - and that you can actually score more points during a stop drill than a grippy, junky skydive!

If your team can discipline itself to respect move-stop-grips, you will increase your scores. Moreover, your skydives will feel better and have a better flow to them as you train the discipline and it becomes ingrained.

[Albatross 0]

Dave has the core of it. Bottom line is that the dives will become faster primarily from the team spending less time in the formation rather than by moving much faster. The ideal is that everyone know that the formation is built and ready to key, eveyone keys at the same moment, everyone moves to the new spot, sees that it is ready, picks up grips and the next key comes.
Stop drills force this to happen. A key comes, eveyone drops grips (credit for syncronous keys), everyone makes their move looking at their clone, when the formation is stable shaped and ready a pseudo key is given and eveyone looks at their grips and takes up the grip, then look back to your clone and see the key.
In this mode "points" are given for syncronicity not grips.

Chris

[zhark 0]

Awesome... sounds like a good drill. I think we'll give this a bash next weekend. We're training on creepers on Friday, so we'll start working on it there already...

Thanks for all the advice guys!

[Albatross 0]

Zhark it is as important to maintain the dicipling on the creapers as in the air. It is MUCH cheaper to creap so make sure you take the time to do angles and "pauses (that is stop drills), before doing flow

Chris