rdesilets 0 #1 July 7, 2003 Hi Folks, I have about 600 jumps, 99% of which is RW. Mostly smaller stuff like 4-6 way dives. I weigh 190 lbs and am 5'9". Weightlifting is my other hobby so I am one of those 'dense' 190 lb guys. My jump suit was made based on my body construction and the tendency to fall fast, e.g. its not a tight nylon suit rather a looser fitting suit. I also have booties. I have about 30 jumps on this new RW suit. Recently I have been doing 'bigger way' stuff like 16-18 ways. On my first dive of this size a few weeks ago I went low and it sucked bad. I spent the whole dive trying to get back up to the formation. It was very different for me since I was used to 'fast 4-6 way' stuff. Over the subsequent bigger dives I have learned to slow things down a little and fly with the formation. However, this weekend we got videos of the dives and it appears that when I am 'flying slower' (e.g. trying not to go low again) I tend to drop my knees a little and semi de-arch and fly that way, as opposed to a nice relaxed arch position. I would like to correct this as I don't want to 'learn to fly slower' with my knees down in a semi de-arched position. Ok, now my questions: 1) I do have swoop cords in my suit but I have never used them. I have heard mixed feedback as to whether I should use them or not. Some people tell me that I just need to correctly figure out how to fly my body slower and I won't need the cords. They say that when I am 'big' the swoop cords do their job but as soon as I got back into the relaxed arch position they are useless. This I understand based on the design of the swoop cords. 2) Does anyone have any suggestions for me on how to slow down my fall rate and still be in a nice relaxed position so I can fly normally (as opposed to this knee down semi arched 'oh my god I don't want to go low' position). Thanks in advance!! -Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rdesilets 0 #2 July 7, 2003 Just about 10 seconds after I posted this I saw the previous thread on 'swoop cords'. So, please disregard my questions on the swoop cords. I got all my information from that thread. However, I am still interested in feedback regarding how to 'fall slower' while still maintaining good body position to turn points, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #3 July 7, 2003 QuoteHi Folks, I have about 600 jumps, 99% of which is RW. Mostly smaller stuff like 4-6 way dives. I weigh 190 lbs and am 5'9". Weightlifting is my other hobby so I am one of those 'dense' 190 lb guys. My jump suit was made based on my body construction and the tendency to fall fast, e.g. its not a tight nylon suit rather a looser fitting suit. I also have booties. I have about 30 jumps on this new RW suit. Recently I have been doing 'bigger way' stuff like 16-18 ways. On my first dive of this size a few weeks ago I went low and it sucked bad. I spent the whole dive trying to get back up to the formation. It was very different for me since I was used to 'fast 4-6 way' stuff. Over the subsequent bigger dives I have learned to slow things down a little and fly with the formation. However, this weekend we got videos of the dives and it appears that when I am 'flying slower' (e.g. trying not to go low again) I tend to drop my knees a little and semi de-arch and fly that way, as opposed to a nice relaxed arch position. I would like to correct this as I don't want to 'learn to fly slower' with my knees down in a semi de-arched position. Ok, now my questions: 1) I do have swoop cords in my suit but I have never used them. I have heard mixed feedback as to whether I should use them or not. Some people tell me that I just need to correctly figure out how to fly my body slower and I won't need the cords. They say that when I am 'big' the swoop cords do their job but as soon as I got back into the relaxed arch position they are useless. This I understand based on the design of the swoop cords. 2) Does anyone have any suggestions for me on how to slow down my fall rate and still be in a nice relaxed position so I can fly normally (as opposed to this knee down semi arched 'oh my god I don't want to go low' position). Thanks in advance!! -Rob Physics suggests 3 solutions: 1. Lose weight 2. Add drag 3. Get your buddies to fall faster. With respect to (2), some skydivers have "big way" suits that are looser than their 4-way suits. You can also get loose sleeves to go over your lower arms that will add drag. As an inexpensive experiment, you can try wearing a loose tee-shirt over your jumpsuit to see if it helps. (3) might be the solution. Do you know what the fall rate was on these skydives? Maybe you should be part of the base, then you become the solution.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keskeie 0 #4 July 9, 2003 Just went through the AWESOME big way camp that kate, tony, and dan bc put on at Perris a couple weeks ago, so I'm just repeating what I heard over and over from them. DRESS FOR SUCCESS!! You have to know a little about how big ways fall (and each one is different, which is why most aren't always successful on the first jump with a bunch of people/new configuration you don't know). But it's almost guaranteed that the farther out you are on the formation the slower it's going to be going by the time you get there. Be ready for it to be falling slow. And the best way to do that is to have a suit that will let you fall COMFORTABLY (i.e. still in your normal arch) to make it in. Plan to fall in the middle of your range, and then you still can de-arch to slow up or arch more to speed up. I don't have multiple suits yet, but the big guys who have been in the sport for years do. And I'm sure others around you have one or two extra suits that they would let you borrow as needed. (I have found that my freefly pants and a long sleeve tshirt work great for me if I'm on the very outside with no one docking on me. Try different stuff out so when it's a really important dive you know what choices you have.) Anyways, have fun and just remember to DRESS FOR SUCCESS!! We were never feeling bored because we were never being boring. -Zelda Fitzgerald Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keskeie 0 #5 July 9, 2003 Oh, and look at the other thread about "fast" and "slow" suits, there's what I just said and more....We were never feeling bored because we were never being boring. -Zelda Fitzgerald Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tsisson 0 #6 August 5, 2003 Quote As an inexpensive experiment, you can try wearing a loose tee-shirt over your jumpsuit to see if it helps. Something to think about before trying this experiment...make sure the bottom of the tshirt is anchored down and not able to fly up over your handles...getting to a cutaway handle or reserve handle through a t-shirt is a sure way to mess up a perfectly good pair of boxer shorts... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoltan 0 #7 August 6, 2003 Well :) Iknow i have an unpopular opinion about this issue :) First of all I beleive that slower suit might help and Tshirt type of trick can solve some problem. But still it is about skydiving and not about cloth-freaking :) 99% of the situation when somebody goes low is not about fall rate or jump suit problem. It is about how and when you 'pull your handbrake' in a dive. If you are not in the base then you are diver or floater. The problem comes when people dive... The formation is under you let's say about 200 feet... so you dive, so you are faster then the formation. If you start to brake 2-3 feet above the formation you will end up 10-20 feet lower then the formation.. you look up and you go even lower... So you need to react earlier and start to brake your dive already 20-30 feet above the formation. If you brake too early... no probem you will stage the approach 5 feet by 5 feet. At maximum you will be later in your slot, but you wil never go low. You do not need to fall 'slower' but you need to fall the same speed as the formation. If the formation is really slow and you dress up according to this low speed then the formation is just gets even slower... so it does not solve the problem. But first check a ProTrack or stuff like it for the speed of the formation. 110--115-120 mph should not be a problem... If the team is slower then this, then you mention it to the organizer.... They should no that 105 mph is slow and in this case it is not you who should put extra clothes but guys in the base shuld put more weights on :) or fly better. z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,116 #8 August 6, 2003 Both things are true. However, if you're on a bigway (or medium-way) where you're not familiar with the fall rate, then braking too early can make you late to your slot, which makes you stand out on the video -- and we all know it's all about the video You just have to get it right the first time. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #9 August 6, 2003 QuoteBoth things are true. However, if you're on a bigway (or medium-way) where you're not familiar with the fall rate, then braking too early can make you late to your slot, which makes you stand out on the video -- and we all know it's all about the video You just have to get it right the first time. Wendy W. Better to be slow than to be low. On the first jump of a big way the organizers usually exhort everyone to go slow. The axe doesn't swing until later.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoltan 0 #10 August 7, 2003 jep :) It is all about risk management... on an important -what a stupid term- jump you better take less risk and be a bit slower and more relaxd but on a boogie fun jump you migh push a bit your limits and practice a bit faster approache and smile longer in the video.... and if you screw up :) then it is allways good motivation for the begginers that even you the hero makes mistakes :) z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #11 August 7, 2003 Quotejep :) It is all about risk management... on an important -what a stupid term- jump you better take less risk and be a bit slower and more relaxd but on a boogie fun jump you migh push a bit your limits and practice a bit faster approache and smile longer in the video.... and if you screw up :) then it is allways good motivation for the begginers that even you the hero makes mistakes :) z If you want to go fast and dock hard, 10-way speed is the event for you. Like this... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
