Engineering 10-way, esp. the beartrap

[darkwing 4]

we are trying to put together a team to go the a post-Xmas meet in Lake Wales to do 10-way. I have done some preliminary engineering on the dives, but I'd like some suggestions, especially on the beartrap and the dragon. Any hints/tips will be appreciated.

I expect the experience level to be decent, although some will be old, worn-out competition veterans, some will be young, very good flyers, and maybe one or two low timers.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[weid14 0]

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we are trying to put together a team to go the a post-Xmas meet in Lake Wales to do 10-way. I have done some preliminary engineering on the dives, but I'd like some suggestions, especially on the beartrap and the dragon. Any hints/tips will be appreciated.

I expect the experience level to be decent, although some will be old, worn-out competition veterans, some will be young, very good flyers, and maybe one or two low timers.

you best bet is to figure out where to put your talent the exit frame. the good proffesor will be able to help you. If yo need any 4way help on the other hand, I'm here for ya

[kallend 1,623]

Are they using current USPA exit rules at the lake Wales meet?

I have some general hints at www.iit.edu/~kallend/skydive/tenway.html

but will be pleased to provide more details on the Beartrap and Dragon. A lot depends on how you exit.

[darkwing 4]

I think they will use the current exit rules, but my personal preference is for no grips allowed on exit.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[kallend 1,623]

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I think they will use the current exit rules, but my personal preference is for no grips allowed on exit.

No grips will add about 5 seconds to your completion times.

Here's a picture of the front of our line up (note "diverdriver" at the front, kneeling down)

www.aerialdynamics.com/displayPhoto.asp?id=369

This site has a number of pictures of 10-way exits, look in the RW gallery under "exits"
We put out 3 floaters, unlinked. The kneeling guy, #1, gives the count. #5 crouches over the kneeling guy. #2 (me) is squeezed into the back corner behind the line; there's not much room back there. I leave with (and sometimes ahead of, since I go on the "t" or "set") #1. #3 follows me out at the same time as #5 goes over the top of #1. #4, #6 and #7 hold #5's leg straps and try to fly out a kind-of diamond base (that is, they take it out flat and out from the plane rather than just dropping away). 8, 9, and 10 hold on to the laterals of the rig of the person ahead until out the door, then they release. Each 1/10 second of exit separation adds about 1 second to the completion time, all else being equal.

4, 5, 6, and 7 break grips and form the base of the required formation, set heading and fall rate. How you build from here is very dependent on where the divers and floaters are. You need to practice so that everyone is in a consistent position and can fly straight to their slot.

on our team, #1 does not get much push out the door because he's in an awkward kneeling position, so he tends to drop straight down. I (#2) go a long way out to the left of the line of flight because I get a good push off into a track through an unobstructed door, while #3 has me in the way, so ends up closer in, this means the three floaters each come to the base from a different direction and don't get in each other's way (which is good).

The divers alternate left and right, and #10 pretty much gets flung over the top and comes in close to me on several of the formations (Star, Wright Flyer, Pinwheel, Nova).

If this is how your exits work, I'll draw up some pictures of our engineering. However, to answer some of your questions:

Dragon: we tried building with floaters coming from one side and divers from the other, but found we were more consistent with 8, 9 and 10 at the neck and head, and floaters on the tail. The head has to keep it on heading or the tail whips and the last person in has a really hard time docking.
This is a long narrow formation and you have to concentrate on keeping it level from end to end, it's easy for the cats to pull the back end down.
Beartrap. The compressed parts float so the people on the cats have to be prepared for this. We use a cheater grip to hold the two "jaws" together until the "hinge" people (#3 and #8) have docked. We have #5 and #6 outfacing, and #1 and #9 as the cats.

[darkwing 4]

Kallend -- Excellent. Wonderful! This is the kind of stuff I was looking for. Thanks so much.

To fill in a bit more -- any competition experience we have is either in 4-way, or some old-style (knot-hole Beeches) 10-way speed stuff from a loooong time ago. So this new-fangled 10-way is quite different for all of us.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[kallend 1,623]

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Kallend -- Excellent. Wonderful! This is the kind of stuff I was looking for.
Thanks so much.

To fill in a bit more -- any competition experience we have is either in
4-way, or some old-style (knot-hole Beeches) 10-way speed stuff from a
loooong time ago. So this new-fangled 10-way is quite different for all of
us.

You're very welcome. Just adding to what I wrote, the exit can make or break your time. We took over 1/2 second off the exit time by practicing, and get get 10 out the door in about 2.3 seconds. STL was getting out in around 2.0. But.. there's no point in getting out fast if it leaves you unstable or poorly positioned to make your dock. Each time we had a personnel change (which was too often) we had to rework the exit because of body size differences, and this left everyone positioned differently out the door and that in turn affected the engineering of the formations. We would make a couple of jumps and ask everyone to note where they were relative to the base immediately after exit, and then we'd then sit down and work out the docking details from there. That's how we ended up having #10 going over the top - he went there naturally so we made use of it.

Even the round is tricky (everyone can make a round, right?) because you can't dock fast if someone is in your way.

You'll have a lot of fun, I'm sure.

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Kallend -- Excellent. Wonderful! This is the kind of stuff I was looking for. Thanks so much.

To fill in a bit more -- any competition experience we have is either in 4-way, or some old-style (knot-hole Beeches) 10-way speed stuff from a loooong time ago. So this new-fangled 10-way is quite different for all of us.

So - how did it go? You never reported back.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[darkwing 4]

It has been a real learning experience. We got in about a dozen practice jumps, although I doubt there were any two with the same people or the same exit. At least we have figured out some of what NOT to do. We are going to Lake Wales for the meet. About 15 people from our DZ are making the trip.

your advice has been very valuable to us. thanks again. We have the experience and capability to not suck. In any case we will have fun.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

It has been a real learning experience. We got in about a dozen practice jumps, although I doubt there were any two with the same people or the same exit. At least we have figured out some of what NOT to do. We are going to Lake Wales for the meet. About 15 people from our DZ are making the trip.

your advice has been very valuable to us. thanks again. We have the experience and capability to not suck. In any case we will have fun.

So - how did it go at Lake Wales?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.