SweCow 0 #1 September 30, 2002 Hi everybody and thanx for a great forum... My name is Peter, I live and jump in the southern parts of Sweden. In Februari (how do you spell it, the second month?) I´m going to Deland to learn to fly on my belly. My last fivehundred jumps have been freeflying jumps and i feel that now is the time to try 4-way. I have found three guys who are far better bellyfliers than me. They want to go to the tunnel in Orlando to train for 12 hours, first thing when we get to Florida. My question: Altough it seems lika a good idea it does cost alot of money. How should i use the time in the tunnel to get the most out of it? Any personal opinions and experiences are welcome... Fly free Peter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cubster 0 #2 September 30, 2002 schedule your trip to take advantage of one or more of airzona airpeed camps well worth the money Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stacy 0 #3 September 30, 2002 If you will be at deland there are plenty of resources there that will help you out in the tunnel (schedule permitting). Call up manifest @ deland and explain you are looking for a tunnel coach or call up teh tunnel, tell them you will be at deland and flying an extended amount of time. someone will be able to set you up. for that much time and just starting out in RW or 4way, whatever, you definitely want someone to coach you, at least initially. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle 0 #4 October 1, 2002 The guys from Majic go to the tunnel alot, try to get ahold of Gary or Solie while youre in town and see what they can do to set up some time with you. They are great guys and you'll learn alot from them. Spend the money and get in the tunnel its well worth it. Let me know when your in town. Ill meet you at the DZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoltan 0 #5 October 1, 2002 Hi Peter, I live and jump in Finland.. not so far from you :) and now i will write you something what aftter the first reading will sound wierd... Do not spend your money on WindTunel... 13 hours tuneltime gives you about 500-700 jumps experiences. If you hhave 500 freefly jumps in your logbook than nobody expect form you to turn 10-15 points with a 4way team :) Skydiving is a social and time/money consuming sport. But maybe the social part is the bigest. If you are not a serious competiotion 4way jumper than the windtunel is only an ineteresting experience and a 30 mins session is just enough for you. And _jump_ the rest of your money with your mentors and friends. z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SweCow 0 #6 October 1, 2002 Thanks everyone for charing your opinions! Zoltan- Maybe you are right... I will probably cut down some of the tunnel time and skydive some more insted. As you wrote: But maybe the social part is the biggest. I think it is... But I do want to learn as fast as possible. Since im going there with pepole who are way more experienced than me and I don´t like being the slowest flieer in a group Personaly I do this mostly to be able to go through the AFF instructor course. I like to educate pepole so that more and more pepole can participate in the best social activit "on" earthFly free /P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoltan 0 #7 October 1, 2002 I think the tunel trining might fix your body position and might help you to turn faster and move more accure... but beleive me that under 15 points avarage th 4way is mostly about problem solving... Problems what you can not simulate in the tunel.. problems like unstable exits, problems like brainlock, going-low, loosing the eyecontact, screwin the "total separation" up, etc. these things can be traing in 2ways best. And do not worry, if you have 500 freefly jumps then you are not that slow and bad as you think. Freefly is a very good basic for formation skydive... It is practical (specialy in big ways) to be able to control your body even if you are unstable :) z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #8 October 1, 2002 As much as I love the tunnel, I partially agree that 12 hours is probably a LOT for someone like you. For me, If I could afford 12 hours in the tunnel, I'd be the happiest skydiver on earth...but I compete in 4-way. The tunnel is really where you want to be if you want to do drills to improve your individual flying skills, since you can get in there and do 500 side slides if you want, and you won't feel like you've wasted your time, because you will improve. Plus, no worries about pulling, landing, cutting away, etc. Hire a coach, but not for 12 hours.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #9 October 1, 2002 uh, I highly disagree, of the 4way teams that train in the tunnel (yes you can do 4way in the tunnel), you can see marked improvement, you can fix all those problems you reference (well, exits I guess not), as well as train most (80% or more) of the blocks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #10 October 1, 2002 Remember what Peter (the original poster) said was his proposed end state: to be able to easily pass the AFF Instructor course. 12 Hours in a wind tunnel, assuming you and your buddies have that much cash to spend, would best be broken up into different types of drills. I spin a lot of 4-way in our tunnel, but nowadays I spend most of my tunnel time honing my instructor/coaching skills. Things which are more relevant to what you are working towards would be spin stops, proximity drills, un-flipping people who are on their backs, etc. Proximity drills and over/under drills both apply directly to both 4-way and AFF, so you absolutely cannot do enough of that stuff. All that being said, I would probably clarify your ultimate goals, then figure out how to use your tunnel time most wisely. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #11 October 1, 2002 Chuck, understood, I was replying to Zoltan about the effectiveness for 4way.... that said, you can also free fly in the tunnel (recommend night time for that). anything over a couple hours flight time in a short time frame (two days) is pushing the limit. I've done 3.5 hours in a weekend, and was beat, so watch how much gets scheduled vs. anything else you would like to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #12 October 1, 2002 Likewise, it would be good to tell these people that come from overseas that they don't want to be wasting their time scheduling at SkyVenture in the middle of the day unless they want to be laying on the net a lot, flying all cupped up, or wearing slip-ons. Yes, it's a much stronger civilian tunnel than Pigeon Forge, but it's certainly not Fort Bragg. As such, people blocking off lots of time are wise to fly at night when, as Lance Kerwin would put it, "the mollecules are not so rarified". Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #13 October 1, 2002 they've made some improvements, you can do 4way in there on all but the worst days in the summer (still can do it, but verticals are a challenge Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites arlo 0 #14 October 2, 2002 Quoteit still is wise to schedule that after the sun goes down, unless your waif like Hey Dave, at least the cooler weather is in sight now. :) It's already a chilly 75 degrees at 10pm. Gotta love it! ;) Come on cool weather and clean tunnel air. :) arlo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weid14 0 #15 October 2, 2002 I feel the need for 4way Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites arlo 0 #16 October 2, 2002 QuoteI feel the need for 4way I hear ya talking...i've got a little craving for it myself...make that a HUGE craving. ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BikerBabe 0 #17 October 2, 2002 Hey Arlo...I just want to say that you guys rock! We were out there this weekend, and the entire tunnel staff was awesome and made every effort to accomodate us moving our times around, providing us an empty team room, giving us free stuff... We'll definitely be back as a team...my two teammates had never been before and they had a blast. Flying in the tunnel is fun, but you guys make the experience. Thanks!Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites arlo 0 #18 October 2, 2002 your welcome. :) I'm glad you guys had a great time. Of course as you could probably tell, we NEVER have any fun. ;) It's great to get such positive feedback. I'll make sure to pass it along to the folks there when I go to work tomorrow. :) Of course, they'll never believe it if it's associated with me. ;) thanks! arlo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zoltan 0 #19 October 2, 2002 BikerBabe, weid14, SkymonkeyONE yes, i was expecting that kind of reactions :) "The tunnel is really where you want to be" no ... it is the bar with my friends where i really want to be.. and i'm also competing in 4way.. but i'm a skydiver and not a tunel cyber :) what i know i know from my mentors and from the sky and what time is given there i use there. Old-school old-way, but works. "Plus, no worries about pulling, landing, cutting away, etc." hmmm I'm not worried about these things... these are the parts of our sports... you know "Do not free a camel of the burden of his hump: you may be freeing him from being a camel." And once again... i do not question the proven fact that tunel training can improve your 4way skills. It is clean fact, stupid who disagrees with this. _BUT_ skydiving is skydiving and wind tuneling is wind tuneling... and my sport philosophy is that do not mix things even if they seem to be effective. I was doing various sports form competition gymnastics to swimming and finaly formation skydive. I belevie that real things are better. If it is hot up there then you sweat, if it is cold than you freez. If you are beginner and do 8-10 packjobs a day, then you will feel your fingers... If you jump a Sabre, then you will feel your back... This is -same as all other sports- about real feelings and not about points... points are coming automaticaly... but since money talks.. you can buy your points earlier :) if you want to... i do not. blue skies z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SweCow 0 #20 October 2, 2002 Hi everyone. Thanx for all your opinions. I think we have decided to cut down on some of the tunnel time in favour of skydiving. But we will still use the tunnel a couple of hours thoug. If you have any sugestions on who we could hire as a coach during the first week of feburary, please mail me or post them here... Zoltan- I do agree with you, that it´s the skydiving that matters, and the road to get to the top (if thats were you are going) is the fun part. Real feelings! But yes, I do want to buy a few points since i´m going to jump with pepole who are alot more experienced than me... Seems to me that we will have more fun if we are closer to the same level of experienceDoes it matter that much what time of day you fly? Is it worth to spend the extra money to fly evenings? I had no idea the temperature mattered that much... Once again: Thanx everyone. I´m truly glad to have found you all here on Dropzone.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weid14 0 #21 October 2, 2002 QuoteDoes it matter that much what time of day you fly? Is it worth to spend the extra money to fly evenings? I had no idea the temperature mattered that much... not in February. won't matter. It used to be that te more hot and humid summer air was "slower", they've made improvements to help with that, but in Feb it is cool enough that that didn't matter before and doesn't matter now. There are a bunch of coaches that would help you, Majik (Doug, Joey, Gary, Solly), Shannon, Chromie, Dave VG, Ian, and a few others all work out of DeLand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RTB 0 #22 October 2, 2002 If you like being around people who speak swedish, you could also see if Niklas Hemlin (swede)or Thorstein (norwegian) are available. René Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weid14 0 #23 October 2, 2002 I would say Niklas, but he's pretty busy with school, but would probably set aside some time in the tunnel for a countryman! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
arlo 0 #14 October 2, 2002 Quoteit still is wise to schedule that after the sun goes down, unless your waif like Hey Dave, at least the cooler weather is in sight now. :) It's already a chilly 75 degrees at 10pm. Gotta love it! ;) Come on cool weather and clean tunnel air. :) arlo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #15 October 2, 2002 I feel the need for 4way Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arlo 0 #16 October 2, 2002 QuoteI feel the need for 4way I hear ya talking...i've got a little craving for it myself...make that a HUGE craving. ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #17 October 2, 2002 Hey Arlo...I just want to say that you guys rock! We were out there this weekend, and the entire tunnel staff was awesome and made every effort to accomodate us moving our times around, providing us an empty team room, giving us free stuff... We'll definitely be back as a team...my two teammates had never been before and they had a blast. Flying in the tunnel is fun, but you guys make the experience. Thanks!Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arlo 0 #18 October 2, 2002 your welcome. :) I'm glad you guys had a great time. Of course as you could probably tell, we NEVER have any fun. ;) It's great to get such positive feedback. I'll make sure to pass it along to the folks there when I go to work tomorrow. :) Of course, they'll never believe it if it's associated with me. ;) thanks! arlo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoltan 0 #19 October 2, 2002 BikerBabe, weid14, SkymonkeyONE yes, i was expecting that kind of reactions :) "The tunnel is really where you want to be" no ... it is the bar with my friends where i really want to be.. and i'm also competing in 4way.. but i'm a skydiver and not a tunel cyber :) what i know i know from my mentors and from the sky and what time is given there i use there. Old-school old-way, but works. "Plus, no worries about pulling, landing, cutting away, etc." hmmm I'm not worried about these things... these are the parts of our sports... you know "Do not free a camel of the burden of his hump: you may be freeing him from being a camel." And once again... i do not question the proven fact that tunel training can improve your 4way skills. It is clean fact, stupid who disagrees with this. _BUT_ skydiving is skydiving and wind tuneling is wind tuneling... and my sport philosophy is that do not mix things even if they seem to be effective. I was doing various sports form competition gymnastics to swimming and finaly formation skydive. I belevie that real things are better. If it is hot up there then you sweat, if it is cold than you freez. If you are beginner and do 8-10 packjobs a day, then you will feel your fingers... If you jump a Sabre, then you will feel your back... This is -same as all other sports- about real feelings and not about points... points are coming automaticaly... but since money talks.. you can buy your points earlier :) if you want to... i do not. blue skies z Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SweCow 0 #20 October 2, 2002 Hi everyone. Thanx for all your opinions. I think we have decided to cut down on some of the tunnel time in favour of skydiving. But we will still use the tunnel a couple of hours thoug. If you have any sugestions on who we could hire as a coach during the first week of feburary, please mail me or post them here... Zoltan- I do agree with you, that it´s the skydiving that matters, and the road to get to the top (if thats were you are going) is the fun part. Real feelings! But yes, I do want to buy a few points since i´m going to jump with pepole who are alot more experienced than me... Seems to me that we will have more fun if we are closer to the same level of experienceDoes it matter that much what time of day you fly? Is it worth to spend the extra money to fly evenings? I had no idea the temperature mattered that much... Once again: Thanx everyone. I´m truly glad to have found you all here on Dropzone.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weid14 0 #21 October 2, 2002 QuoteDoes it matter that much what time of day you fly? Is it worth to spend the extra money to fly evenings? I had no idea the temperature mattered that much... not in February. won't matter. It used to be that te more hot and humid summer air was "slower", they've made improvements to help with that, but in Feb it is cool enough that that didn't matter before and doesn't matter now. There are a bunch of coaches that would help you, Majik (Doug, Joey, Gary, Solly), Shannon, Chromie, Dave VG, Ian, and a few others all work out of DeLand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RTB 0 #22 October 2, 2002 If you like being around people who speak swedish, you could also see if Niklas Hemlin (swede)or Thorstein (norwegian) are available. René Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weid14 0 #23 October 2, 2002 I would say Niklas, but he's pretty busy with school, but would probably set aside some time in the tunnel for a countryman! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
weid14 0 #21 October 2, 2002 QuoteDoes it matter that much what time of day you fly? Is it worth to spend the extra money to fly evenings? I had no idea the temperature mattered that much... not in February. won't matter. It used to be that te more hot and humid summer air was "slower", they've made improvements to help with that, but in Feb it is cool enough that that didn't matter before and doesn't matter now. There are a bunch of coaches that would help you, Majik (Doug, Joey, Gary, Solly), Shannon, Chromie, Dave VG, Ian, and a few others all work out of DeLand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RTB 0 #22 October 2, 2002 If you like being around people who speak swedish, you could also see if Niklas Hemlin (swede)or Thorstein (norwegian) are available. René Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #23 October 2, 2002 I would say Niklas, but he's pretty busy with school, but would probably set aside some time in the tunnel for a countryman! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
