skreamer 1 #76 February 8, 2002 QuoteWhat do you need for a coach rating in the BPA? 45,001 jumps, must fly a 50 Sq Ft or less canopy, a DDDD license, and a note from the Queen Mum?Yes, I must say I really hate the way they don't make 100 jump wonders coaches over here. Maybe if the BPA was a bit more progressive we'd all be as good as you....lol"Don't die until you're dead" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #77 February 8, 2002 "we'd all be as good as you...."Well....we can always hope for that. Keep up the practice....I'm sure you will show improvement...."I only have 125 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #78 February 8, 2002 Damn I missed alot while I was at lunch. Good lunch though. Clay, I re sent that email to the bellsouth address.You guys were busy while I was gone. LOLYup, this definitely wins the furtherest tangent from the original post award for today. But I think overall some good points were covers and the flaming was definitely at a minimum and even constructive at times. (Except when Remster accused me sleeping with cattle, that was hitting below the belt) "The old man said, 'I've been putting roofs on houses for 30 years, over 1000 roofs in my life time..do you think the town folk call me 'John The Roofer'? No. But I f--k one sheep........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #79 February 8, 2002 email got sent back, not bellsouth business related.......? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #80 February 8, 2002 PM me...."I only have 125 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #81 February 8, 2002 I'm really not an elitist ass. Really. In fact I'm being quite egalitarian in my opinion that students should receive high quality coaching from qualified individuals. If you want to fun jump with new people for free and give them pointers, please do so. Don't get a coach rating just you you can get paid to do the same thing. Coaching should be taken seriously, and I think one of the reasons it is not is because people assume that the practicing coaches out there are all 125 jump wonders. The coaches I know approach their job in a professional manner and do everything they can to give the student good information and training.Thanks for the flame though. It's a little cold this time of year.I already posted my thoughts on the original topic, but I want to reiterate that in a good RW dive or RW stable position you can see below and behind you. You need to see in that direction because that is where the other swwopers might be coming from. In a stand/sit you can't see that way because your body is in the way.- DanG (aka Elitist Ass) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fred 0 #82 February 9, 2002 Skreamer, are you saying that somebody with 125 jumps should not jump with a low timer at all? Or just that he shouldn't be paid for any advice that he might be able to give?I'm jumping for fun. I want to have a ball while diving, and feel those great feelings from a good skydive. I'm not particularly concerned with being the best skydiver, freeflyer, RW'er, or whatelse, but I want to be safe and have a good time.That said, I'd be thrilled to jump with our 125 jump wonder. Considering that technically, I can jump with another 20-something jumper, I'd really feel a lot better with somebody with more experience, and I'm comfortable with my own abilities so that I don't think I need a Golden Knight up there trying to save my ass. (I'll save my own ass, and I want to jump with somebody who I'm confident can save his/hers).Should he be charging? Well, I probably wouldn't pay for his slot, just because I know that I can get my own DZO to jump with me for free, and I know that there are a lot out there with more experience than he who would also jump with me for free.But I do think that it's unfair to suggest that he is unqualified to jump with me, when just about every USPA recommendation says that it's A-OK. And if he can give me advice? I'm the happier for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fred 0 #83 February 9, 2002 Okay... just realized that I responded to this thread after reading only the first page. Sorry about that.To go further off topic, I think a lot of you need to reread your SIM and pay some attention to what SL instructors actually do. While they don't need to spend as much time with lower level students as an AFF instructor, they do need to do more than just "push students out the door" (though, I must say, getting out of the Cessna that first time, my JM's ability to urge me out the door was very helpful). They have to pay a lot of attention to what the student is doing after the leave, on teh lower levels, and when they have more experience, they do jump and dock and evaluate their students in the air.I think the SL instructors deserve a lot more respect than they've been shown in this thread. I'm sure it's easier than being an AFF coach, but the teaching aspect is a lot harder than, say, doing a tandem jump. (Disclaimer: I'm not saying tandems are easy, I'm just saying that you don't need to worry so much about what the student learns, just keeping them safe). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #84 February 9, 2002 ummm...have you ever seen a flat spin with a tandem student that went fetal??? marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #85 February 9, 2002 ask the bytch about that before ya make statements like that....marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #86 February 9, 2002 Well, having been both an S/L and Tandem instructor in the past.... teaching an FJC requires an entirely different skill set than throwing students out of the plane, and doing tandems is completely different from both of those activities. Nothing that a static line JM or I does is nearly as risky or requires nearly the air skills of doing tandems, but on the "traditional" static line program an SL JM/I is required to exit with and observe (without touching) the student on the longer delays.btw, I got my S/L JM at 110 jumps, after only 9 months in the sport. I jumped with people just off student status and taught lots of them simple RW - and yes, many times they bought my jump. Where I "grew up" there just weren't many experienced jumpers around so it was me or nobody. I learned a lot chasing those jumpers around the sky. I do think that many people with 100-200 jumps are perfectly capable of staying with a novice in the air and passing on what they've learned. If they've passed the air skill requirements to get a coach rating, their jumps should be paid for by the novice. imho of course...pull and flare,lisa--What would Scooby Doo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheMarshMan1 0 #87 February 9, 2002 I'd have to agree. As a lower-time jumper myself, I would definitely pay for Clay's slot as my coach, provided he has passed the USPA coach course. For a few reasons:1.) He has to pass the entire coach course, and once he does that, the USPA feels he is qualified to coach. If they say he is, I will give it a try. 2.) When I jump with other people who have the same amount of jumps as me, I learn things. How can you say that I wont learn anything from jumping with someone who has more jumps than me? That is nonsense. 3.) From his posts that actually involve skydiving, he sounds like a very safety-conscious jumper.I dont see any reason that Clay shouldnt get his slot paid as a coach. I would rather jump with him to try to learn the basics of freeflying (sit, etc.) than someone like Jimmy T. at DeLand who charges some ungodly amount for freefly coaching. I can see how jumping with Jimmy would pay off later after I had some of the basic skills...but this early in the game it seems like a waste of money. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure you'll all flame me if I am. This website is getting good at that lately it seems. Everyone who is bitching about this needs to stuff it...nobody said you had to jump with him. If I feel confident enough to be a coach when I hit 125 jumps hopefully in the next few months...then I'm gonna do the coach course as well. Dont like it? Bitch at USPA, not me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #88 February 9, 2002 >>>Going head down, or stand flying, or sit flying at break off, if even for only a few seconds, is a way, way, way bad idea. If your in an RW group and start freeflying at break off, you will drop below the others, theycan and will then lose sight of you, what that means for the others you jump with is that they have to nowworry abot where you are and if you are gonna open up into them. I was on an 8 way a few months ago,and a visiting jumper went into a stand fly at break off, dropped 500 feet on the rest of us and I basicallyhad to keep him in my sights and wait until he decided to track away so I could then go in anotherdirection.>>>Not directly related to the original question - RW jumpers that don't freefly and freefliers that don't do RW do NOT have the same understanding of what happens at the end of a dive. If you mix them together on a hybrid or a tracking dive, don't assume that one group will necessarily even understand the words used to describe the procedures in the same way the other group does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WmLauterbach 0 #89 February 10, 2002 in response to the initial question... whether you use a sit, an iron cross, a head down, a swoop, a canon ball, all of them are effective if you are aware of your environment... if you are reckless and 'race' to the formation, even a simple swoop can hurt someone.... the problem is a lot of people think they are 'swooping' when they are really tracking... thats how you end up 'too-steep' to begin with.... closing the outer rings of a 30way is probably a bad time to try something new tho.... get a buddy and a stopwatch... have the friend do a nice easy poised exit, leave with him (undocked) and work towards being able to CONSISTENTLY redock in less than 10 seconds... make a little competion out of it...then move to giving your buddy a 2second headstart... work toward being able to dock in under 15 seconds, then move to a four second delay, and be able to CONSISTENLY dock in under 25.... those are great drills for a cessna dz... you can have two friends do an AFFLVL4 harness hold type exit... swoop them and then turn points... when you get to the 2-4 second delays, they can turn points while they are waiting for you....and of course you can turn all of this into a little friendly competition.....just an idea...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #90 February 11, 2002 "I think alot of you need to reread your SIMS"Thanks for the tip Fred. LMAO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #91 February 11, 2002 Yes,I am getting way off my original topic.Counting jump numbers a really crude way to measure skill/experience.If jumper A has simply bored 125 holes in the sky, then he borders on useless as a coach.If jumper B has been constantly jumping with mentors/coachs, trying to learn something new on every skydive and passed a coaching course, then he is probably competent to coach basic skills.You do not need to be a Golden Knight to coach basic RW/freefly skills.As for getting paid, Pitt Meadows is so short of Coach 2s that - starting this year - we get paid to coach 1:1 RW. The problem is that most of our Coach 2s are also PFF, tandem or videographers and too busy making money to jump for free. Oh, and your perspective on payment changes radically when jumping with students is your sole source of income.Enough e-chatting for today. A pile of Mantas is waiting for me to patch them.Bye. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #92 February 12, 2002 Back to the original question.....I left the Porter probably 4 sec at least behind the base. I tried going into a stand to catch them and ended up having to belly out because I had burned too much vertical altitude and not covered enough horizontal distance. I'm a pretty fair Free Flyer but not an expert by any means. On the jump before I exited a little sooner and dove in normal RW fashion and it worked great. I do however need to figure out how to adjust how steep my dive is. Right now I can either go in a true head down or a dive. But it's one or the other. LOL....I was the first of the swoopers to dock on the first one though!!!! I did RW and it was fun....Wassup with that....."I only have 131 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #93 February 12, 2002 >Counting jump numbers a really crude way to measure skill/experience.>If jumper A has simply bored 125 holes in the sky, then he borders on useless as a coach.>If jumper B has been constantly jumping with mentors/coachs, trying to learn something new on every skydive >and passed a coaching course, then he is probably competent to coach basic skills.Agreed, and I would add something else. When I had 100 jumps, it was considered my _duty_ to coach lower-time jumpers. I got shit once or twice for basically abandoning another jumper at the Ranch (I had 100 or so jumps, he had 25) and jumping with a high-time jumper. And they had a point - people had coached me when I had 25 jumps, now it was my turn.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aneurysm 0 #94 February 12, 2002 I enjoy the feeling of a delta so much I wouldn't want to stand,hands on yer arse and go!!!!Gez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #95 December 23, 2006 It's fun to look back at old threads. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #96 January 2, 2007 i'm 6'6" weighing at 170lbs,,, there is no way i can't get down to the formation just by arching,, i don't understand why people can't see underneath when sitting or standing,,, but getting decent foward rate with stablity is difficult at first.. i personally think that head up gives you better field of vision,,, I have more than 125 jumps i think i know something, but in reality i don't know shit...Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #97 January 2, 2007 QuoteOh...PS...Free Flying will make you a better belly flyer but belly flying won't do shit for your free flying.... this is wrong - any body flying complements all styles even a good Coach would know that ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tru 0 #98 January 10, 2007 Yes, there is a way for you to get down to the formation just by arching - and also getting small, as people earlier in this thread mentioned. I'm 5'4", 140 lbs. and fly (with quite a bit of effort, but it works) with a 6'5" 290+ lb. jumper. No weights. When we fly together, we both fly belly. He stays "big", I get "small" and arch like crazy. I feel if for a couple of days afterwards, but it is definitely possible. As they say in the USAF, "Flexibility is the key to airpower."In your life may you do four things - lie, cheat, steal, and drink. Lie to save a friend, cheat death, steal a heart, and drink with me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #99 January 10, 2007 Not terribly relevant to getting down to formations, but: QuoteI'm 5'4", 140 lbs I'm sorry, but thats not that floaty. My wife is 5'5 and 120. I know jumpers in the 5'4 at about 100. And 6'2 at 160. QuoteHe stays "big", And cant fly that well at that point... Quoteand arch like crazy And cant fly well at that point. Its great to have range, dont get me wrong, but if you fly at the edge of your range, you are not allowing yourself to fly at your best. And as far as really getting down to a formation, I think the point of this thread was long swoops, not just matching fall rates.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #100 January 12, 2007 I've gone up on my knees to loose altitude (although I can fall pretty slow on my booties ) I've told people before that I don't know how to freefly for shit but I can bootie fly pretty well... Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
