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timrf79

Max WL for Sabre 2?

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I know the Sabre 2 has an offical max load, but what is practically the max WL you can jump a Sabre 2 at?
or in other words at which WL should you go from a Sabre 2 to a Katana?

Or does size matter more than WL?
(Exit weight ~ 260lbs)

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timrf79

I know the Sabre 2 has an offical max load, but what is practically the max WL you can jump a Sabre 2 at?
or in other words at which WL should you go from a Sabre 2 to a Katana?

Or does size matter more than WL?
(Exit weight ~ 260lbs)



Sooooooo, Tim. Please give us some and by some I mean all of your skydiving history??? So we may give you a more informed response...

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If you jump a sabre2 170sqf you can switch to a katana 170sqf right now, given you have the experience. There is no lower limit considering WL on a katana, just minimum experience level and the fact PD doesn't make em bigger then 170sqf.

MAX WL to achieve what, broken pelvis? [:/]

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I personally don't like any conventional canopy over 2.0, but that is just a personal preference.

I think for Sabre 2, 1.7 should be the max, for more HP canopies....(katana, crossfire) 2.0, anything after that you should go crossbraced. Again, that is just a personal opinion!

You can definitely jump canopies at higher WL, but I think you start losing performance. I jumped a radical at 1.8 and loved it, switched to a katana at 2.0 and it felt overloaded. Then went to velocity at 2.0 and it felt under-loaded. Velocity felt right at 2.2 and higher

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There are so many factors, without your jump history, it'll be difficult for people to give you a good suggestion. If you have 8000 jumps on a Sabre 2 at 1.6 then, jump whatever loading you want. The assumption is, if you're asking in dz.com, you probably don't have 8000 jumps.

Most of the opinions I've heard on loading of non cross braced canopies is that they max out at 1.9/2. I don't know why you'd want to fly a non cross braced wing that highly loaded given how much effort will go into piloting that wing. You'll of course get the usual "master your wing" admonishment from people more qualified than me to give it so, I'll leave that alone.

I've had very experienced friends tell me that the Sabre 2 is really fun loaded up that high. Personally, I'd want the extra aerodynamic efficiency from a cross braced if I were going to be loading that high. You're (presumably) a grown ass man so, do what you want. #SoFPiDaRF

Cliff notes: Y tho?

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at a 2.0 is where my bottom end flare and general ability to dig out went to hell on a katana... 240lbs exit on a katana 120. I'd assume youll see the same thing at a slightly less loading on the sabre... this doesnt mean you cant fly a katana at 2.5, but the performance actually decreases at a certain point as you start getting heavier loadings. What i mean by this is say hypothetically, you find yourself low, and youll be able to dig out much faster and efficiently further from the stall point on something cross braced than, something not.. generally....
I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof...

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The reason I am asking is, because my friend (rigger & swooper) pointed out that a Sabre 1 loaded higher than 1.5 is a no-go as you will sink your recovery, rather than progressing into a swoop.

Based on canopy progression for swooping, the advice i have gotten is to go Sabre 2 -> Katana -> Velo

While not urgent, my thought process is should I plan on going from a 150 Sabre 2 to a 150 Katana or a 135 Sabre 2?

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I would *strongly* recommend getting coaching and, having someone help you make this decision based on actual knowledge of your skill (it varies a lot and, not directly related to jump numbers while probably correlated) and, temperament.

Having said that, if you were only deciding between a progression of S2-150 -> KA-150 -> KA-135 and S2-150 -> S2-135 -> KA-135 (loadings: 150 = 1.7 / 135 = 1.9), there's no doubt in my mind what I'd do. The safer path is via the larger Katana since you're giving yourself a bigger margin for error. The thing that I didn't really understand until I'd flown a KA is that they're an active pilot's wing (when loaded 1.5ish and up, I guess). That means, you have to always be flying; you can't relax. The more you load it up, the more that will play a part in the rest of your jumping. What's jump run, where are your outs, what's your exit order. By this I mean, you're not just an active pilot while flying the wing, you also have to actively understand what's going on with your wing and, plan your jump.

You're a larger chap, obviously so, you're a bit of an outlier (I don't have that problem) but regardless, 1.7 on your first jump of a KA is no joke. Get some coaching.

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danielcroft

I would *strongly* recommend getting coaching and, having someone help you make this decision based on actual knowledge of your skill (it varies a lot and, not directly related to jump numbers while probably correlated) and, temperament.



I have taken the Flight-1, 101,102,103,201 & 202 last year. During this time period I went from a 230 Sabre 2 to a 190 Sabre 2, 170 Sabre 1, 170 Sabre 2.

danielcroft

Having said that, if you were only deciding between a progression of S2-150 -> KA-150 -> KA-135 and S2-150 -> S2-135 -> KA-135 (loadings: 150 = 1.7 / 135 = 1.9), there's no doubt in my mind what I'd do. The safer path is via the larger Katana since you're giving yourself a bigger margin for error.



Thank you, for your opinion.

danielcroft

The thing that I didn't really understand until I'd flown a KA is that they're an active pilot's wing (when loaded 1.5ish and up, I guess). That means, you have to always be flying; you can't relax. The more you load it up, the more that will play a part in the rest of your jumping. What's jump run, where are your outs, what's your exit order. By this I mean, you're not just an active pilot while flying the wing, you also have to actively understand what's going on with your wing and, plan your jump.


I am not sure I understand the difference to flying my current 170 Sabre2. Exit order is something clearly regulated by the DZ and something set by the type of jump. Outs are always to be known, as in case of wind change or a mal, you might need it.
Not sure how jump run matters for canopy flight?
At 1.6 loading (a bit heavier after the holidays) on a 170 Sabre 2 I come down faster than most jumpers at my DZ, hence knowing who is under canopy, how do they fly is important.

danielcroft

You're a larger chap, obviously so, you're a bit of an outlier (I don't have that problem) but regardless, 1.7 on your first jump of a KA is no joke. Get some coaching.


I am not sure if I will get to a 150 KA this year. Got a 150 Sabre 2 at home that I will start jumping later this year.
I plan on either taking another 201/202 course with the 150 wing this year or look into 1on1 coaching. Alternatively I heard that other (non Flight-1) programs are good too (Thankfull for any suggestions)

However KA that are not too old, at a 150 size don't come along too often at a good price. Hence if I see one come up for sale, I might snatch it up and move it to my closet.
With the KA2 rumors, I might get lucky this year.
My experience is that gear for big guys, is rather rare in good condition.

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timrf79

Not sure how jump run matters for canopy flight?


On a 170 at 1.5 or even a 150 at 1.7 you have way more range than a 135 at 1.9. Those cases when you're thinking to yourself "oh, I'm a bit long here, I'll do X" right now, could be no go on a KA135. Jump run, exit order, wind direction (jump run isn't always into the ground direction, remember); they all matter when you have a wing that requires as much attention as a KA at that loading.

Seems like you have plenty of training and you should have people within Flight-1 who can give you some honest feedback, specific to you around loadings and wing choices.

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