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freeflyfree

Damn, do I have to swoop my reserve? can you help?

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Raven Dash-MZ 150 Hybrid. Top is ZP.

Loaded at 1.7 Lbs per Sq Ft.

Do you guys do it when you land? Do you guys induce speed on the reserve?

I've never landed one of those things you mortals call...Reserves...

Canopy Pilot Mode ON!

Felipe

Felipe
--
Blue Skies
NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY...
"A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine."

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Your Raven will probably stall and hurt you when you flare it for landing at that wing loading. The ZP topskin will make no difference. You may as well speed it up, just remember, it will stall about when your hands make the transition from pull to push if you don't. Many people have regretted being in this situation.

Don't be so cheap, you know what you need to do.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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Thanks Ken for replying,

Go PDR143 all the way huh?

What about those low packing ones

Optimum? What other small packing reserve with a good flare are out there? a Smart LPV?

Why do some people consider the Optimum a bad thing, is it because it opens softer?

Thanks for your comments.

Felipe
--
Blue Skies
NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY...
"A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine."

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You're saying that you weigh 250 out the door for that high of a wingload on a 150. You've maxed out one of the worst canopies to max out. I have a 109 -m (Not ZP) and it sits in a closet now. I have flown it so I'm not making anything up.

The canopy will land you safely, assuming you know how to fly that particular canopy, and flare it as it is designed. You can not flare like the canopies you're used to. You'll need ALL the skill you can muster and hopefully when you need that skill, you have it handy. Chances are, you'll pound in at least a little.

Unlike the Crossfire2, they have a very short control stroke. If you flare it like the Crossfire, you'll stall high and land on your back. Watching people improperly flare a Raven sucks. It's definitely worse for the person laying on the ground.

I grew up on Ravens and other canopies with short control strokes. After a person flies so many different canopies, they can figure out the flare point after a couple quick practice flares. But... you don't always flare correctly on such a wing when trying to land it in the cow field on the corner of the dz next to the fence, and power lines.

So, beyond figuring out how to fly that particular canopy, here's my real opinion.

That canopy is a piece of shit. I won't pack them anymore. If the ZP fails, it fails big. Ravens have a very positive opening. If you are a freeflier as your username suggests... a high speed opening will happen to you at some point, either with your main, or your reserve. Blowing out the top skin, or breaking the line attachments will ruin your day.

If I was your rigger, and friend, etc... I wouldn't touch that canopy. Get a different one.

Good luck!
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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If you get an Optimum, look up to see how large you can make it. Go up in size if you can.

I personally have no issues with the Optimum. I haven't searched here to see what issues people have, or claim so I guess I will after posting to see what the internet users have to say and which ones are saying it.

I'm not a Smart fan but they seem to be OK. I would rather go with PD.
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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Cool, I needed this kind of sense of urgency.

I'm aware that you gotta fly Ravens the way they want to be flown, not the way YOU wanna fly them. (all this in theory)

your comment " (landing) on the corner of the dz next to the fence, and power lines." Got my heart racing as I was reading it :D.

Thanks, I Appreciate your time you took to answer.

Felipe
--
Blue Skies
NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY...
"A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine."

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freeflyfree


your comment " (landing) on the corner of the dz next to the fence, and power lines." Got my heart racing as I was reading it :D.

Felipe



Oh that's nothing :D But I'm glad it makes sense. You don't always get to land anywhere you would like to. And... that reserve canopy sucks!:P
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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The Speed 2000 reserve made by Paratec in Germany is absolutely great. It flies nice, flares great and has a smaller pack volume than a same sized Optimum (saying the 120 Speed will pack like a 106 Optimum). By the way it is also cheaper, but still on the more expensive side for reserves.

The disadvantage? Because the pack volume is so small and the material is so thin it will wear out rather fast. 5 or 6 openings (depending on deployment speed) will require a replacement or living with a pretty weak flare.
Nice words are not always true - and true words are not always nice.

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There are demo and test speed reserves out there with a hundred and more jumps on them, still going strong. Where did you get this impression from? Also its pack volume is not two sizes smaller than an optimum, rather more or less the same if only a tad smaller judging by the experience of a couple thousand reserve packjobs done at my riggers place and a few tries by myself.
I haven't jumped any reserve so far so can't comment on flying aspects though.
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To absent friends

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Also Speed's weight chart needs to be read in context, since when they specify "maximum weight" that means "maximum WL exceeding which is not recommended", not "maximum design weight past which the reserve blows up on opening" PD and others usually mean.
"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

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Pobrause

Also its pack volume is not two sizes smaller than an optimum, rather more or less the same if only a tad smaller judging by the experience of a couple thousand reserve packjobs done at my riggers place and a few tries by myself.



I've no experience with either, but there have been threads in here where riggers reported Speed packing smaller than Optimum one size down. Clearly there are differing opinions and experiences with it.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4800325
"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

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freeflyfree

For me, I guess, it will come to where is the closest service center for my Reserve.



Also known as "rigger I can trust" :). Reserves are thankfully not phones yet, they won't sound an alarm if a person other than the manufacturer looks at them. Of course it means you get to pick someone with a clue to touch it, but the same goes for packing, so hopefully you have one already.
"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

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Damn dude,

I did buy one used. 6 packs short of what the label says.
Anyway, I sent it to PD and they answered:

Hello Felipe,
We have received, tested, inspected and evaluated your reserve. The reserve’s permeability rating is averaging 8.33 CFM in the center. The permeability of the fabric is very important. As the permeability increases, the canopy will open more slowly and flight performance will deteriorate. The rate of descent will increase and the forward speed will decrease. The ability of the canopy to flare to a soft landing will decrease. Performance Designs has established an average permeability limit of 8.0 cfm is as high as it can go to still be considered a life saving device. The reserve must be grounded.

I'm so happy with this result. I do trust PD. I'll use this reserve for training (rigging).

PD did offer me a good deal on a reserve. I'm taking it.

Blue Skies
--
Blue Skies
NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY...
"A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine."

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Most people would expect a non-ZP main to still perform well after 100 jumps, why is it that a reserve might fail after so few pack jobs. I've read that handling that the handling of the fabric during the pack job is what increases the permeability more than a jump, but a main would of course would have both.

It would be interesting to know how the permeability of a typical PD main (non-ZP) would be at various jump numbers. Of course the old mains would not fly so well after a few - several hundred jumps, so I can't help but wonder how they would fare on the test at 100, 200, 400 jumps.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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They might have much more stringent standards for reserves than mains. After all, that tiny 113 thing sometimes has an unconscious freeflyer landing downwind after AAD fire under it...
"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

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