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99 Crossire 2 vs Neos 99

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Hey all!

I am planning on downsizing. Thinking of either getting a CF2 or Neos.

I have been getting mixed reviews from everyone. On one hand I hear the CF is an excellent canopy to learn, dial in swoop skills but then some very experienced swoopers also told me that a Neos would be better because is has a longer recovery arc then a CF and is semi cross braced.



A little bit about me. I have 1200 jumps + 300 Base, TI, D license, Instructor rating, videographer. Coming in with my present canopy pretty quickly. Recovery Arc is pretty short because its a 7 cell 120 storm. Never thought i would start swooping in but i guess thats what happens after years of shooting tandems!!!

Canopy progression has been 155 monarch, 135 sabre, 135 sabre 2, Storm 120. I have tried stilettos, CF, Safires and Katanas.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!!


"we can either clmib down...or take the 15 second express shuttle" ---- during a snow storm on a 1000 foot antenna

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I've done a few hundred jumps on Crossfire 2s (119 & 109) but only a few on a Neos. The Neos definitely has a longer recovery arc and, given that you're hardly a newb, I doubt you'll have trouble going to the Neos from the Storm (treating it with respect, of course). The CF2 is an awesome all around canopy but, it's not really ideal for swooping IMO depending on loading and technique, of course.

You don't mention what your current turn is, how many jumps you've got doing that turn, if you've got any coaching or, have a canopy mentor so, it's hard to say if the longer recovery arc is a great idea (nor do you have your loading mentioned). Given your experience, I'm not sure why you're asking on DZ.com but, I guess that's maybe because you don't have swoop peeps at your local DZ to ask?

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Hey Daniel,

Thanks for the reply.

Been so long since i posted, forgot to mention some stuff.

My weight is 163 lbs (it) + 20 lbs gear so my loading on the 120 storm is a bit above 1.5

I have taken one canopy course and plan on taking one with alter ego in z hills in the winter.
Approaches are 90 with fronts and planing out with rears and finishing with toggles.

I have initiated a few 270 s but feel as thought the storm is not the right canopy for said maneuvers.

I do anywhere between 10- 20 jumps a weekend. Tandems, video or wingsuit/ tracking. Will be keeping the storm for the wing suiting.

I do have some real good swoopers at my dz. Everyone was telling me to go crossfire but the most experienced guy thinks i should get a 99 neos.

I figured i would throw out some feelers out here as part of my research

cheers


"we can either clmib down...or take the 15 second express shuttle" ---- during a snow storm on a 1000 foot antenna

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The shorter recovery arch of the crossfire will teach you perfect accuracy in your setup and technique until the point it gets frustrating and beyond. You'll come out of your turn and getting 'stuck' at 20m above ground alot!
The longer recovery arch of the neos will make your first steps into swooping easier but also less forgiving in cases of fuck ups.

All things considered I'd get a Katana if I were you. They fly quite like neos, come used cheaper than both of your choices, are really capable canopies if you know how to fly them and in terms of rear riser range beat both xfire and neos.
-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

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Pobrause

The shorter recovery arch


"Arch" isn't the same thing as an "arc". https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/arch / https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/arc

I'd agree that the Katana, loaded at around where you're at would be a better choice if you're really planning on focusing on your swooping. Keep in mind that the KA is a very high performance wing so, treat it with respect. You'd be transitioning from a Storm which has a recovery arc that will generally result in some positive gain when swooping (as the Crossfire 2 does) - they "pop" up at the end of the swoop - to a Katana that is generally returns to natural flight without that positive component. That means you have to do something to bail, the wing won't "help" you. At a 1.5 loading on a KA120, you'll find it's not a huge beast but, if you choose to step to the 107 (a large step in terms of taper and loading and probably not recommended without flying the KA120 first for a good few jumps) you're likely better off going back to square one as, everything about your wing and its performance will change. It's important that you understand how to bail and to be honest with yourself as, that kind of step comes with it some significant risk. I'd say that the same is true for the Neos since its recovery arc is more similar to the KA than the XF2 (depending on loading, turn, etc.). For me, the Neos was always a little weird since, if you want to go crossbraced, there are lower performance crossbraced wings (like a Xaos or maybe JFX depending on loading) that won't be a huge distance from that, all things being equal. Point is, I'm not sure there's huge value in partially crossbraced wings (although, I have friends who've loved their Neos so, YMMV).

Out of the two canopies you suggested, I'd probably get the XF2 if I wanted to all the things with the wing, I'd get the Neos if I got a deal on it and wanted to focus on my swooping and a Katana if you really wanted to be serious (and *need* to be) about your swooping. KA should also pack smaller than the same sized Neos.

n.b. not a pro swooper so, take my comments for the opinion that they are.

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You shouldn't both downsize 20 square feet and move to a steeper trimmed canopy. Grab a Katana 120 and put a few hundred on it, wring it out on full altitude jumps. A 100sf canopy is no place to get into learning 270s, even with your jump numbers.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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