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Kurbe105

Finger caught in rear riser while landing JVX 99

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I'm going to open this up since it's still a mystery to me.

https://youtu.be/GWYf53lRR4w

Has anyone ever heard of getting a finger tip caught in the steering line guide ring with gloves on as they transition from rear risers to toggles? I was visiting family out of town and the DZ only allowed 90 deg turns and no high performance landings. I was planning a hit and run! 90 deg turns not being my normal approach(270s are my comfort zone) I ended up about 20 feet low but a small carve in rears was all that was needed and no pucker factor yet. You can see the shadow in the video(easier in full HD) as I transitioned from rears to toggles. For approx 1 full second I was deep in right toggle as I was pulling my left hand(open grip, toggle only, pointer finger straight out) with just enough force to keep it flying level while wiggling my left pointer finger trying to get it free from the steering line guide ring. I kept the wing level and figured on letting the right toggle go back to full flight as the left side stalled(split second thought to not get body slammed and shatter my pelvis) and slide it out as best I could. I was planed out about 6 inches off the ground with my legs up and straight out as if I was low on a pond and trying to not chow. Something I picked up from TJ way back in the day! Fortunately my glove came loose before I got to the stall point and I got a nice pop of lift once I was deep in both toggles, almost making it back up to my feet. Pucker factor was HUGE by this point!!! No one on the ground was experienced enough to even spot what happened in the sequence. Just a bunch of wuffos and a local drunk watching the first load(who ran and told the DZO on me... dick!!!). All they saw and heard was me ripping through the landing area and I got asked to leave the DZ pretty quick for doing a high performance landing. It was a fun jump but the more I think about it the scarier it gets. Coming from a Velo 103, I wore those gloves on every high performance landing for at least the last 300 jumps but haven't worn them since. This was the 1 and only time it's ever happened and I still haven't figured out exactly how my finger got snagged. I was thinking maybe the brand new and really stiff HMA along with the brake stow being slack(from using rears not toggles) maybe had something to do with it?? The only difference in set up I have noticed is that NZA sets up the brake stows on the JVX in a double loop arrangement unlike PDs traditional finger trapped piece of extra line at the brake set point with the main line running all the way to the toggle. Juicy for sure!!! Feel free to share and criticize. I've dished out plenty so now it's time for my medicine. With winter time in the US and needing gloves again it may just save a broken pelvis!!

https://youtu.be/GWYf53lRR4w

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Cool, so your the guy that shows up at another DZ and thinks the rules don't apply to you.

Good to know. You probably could have left all of that out and had a decent conversation on what actually happened.

>:(

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

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Yeah that's true kind of. [:/] But I'm being fully transparent in the hopes that it will keep me or someone else from having this same issue with a much worse outcome. I normally would never visit a DZ that doesn't allow HP landings and I didn't break any rules but sure was pushing the envelope. Slow 90 started above 500' after getting out on a low pass with no traffic in the pattern. They never said anything about a speed limit but I knew what I was planning when I asked if I could do a 90. I added those details because I felt super lucky I wasn't somewhere I could do my normal approach and had to keep it to a 90. Probably karma coming back at me? Anyway here's a picture of the stows...

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Kurbe105

90 deg turns not being my normal approach(270s are my comfort zone)



...what?!?! You can't revert back to a straight forward 90 for one jump???

To stay on topic...no, never got a finger caught in a steering line guide ring, but then again I grip my rears high up at the slink.

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Apparently I butt hurt some people pretty bad and that was never my intention. After more video review I noticed I rolled my hands under the steering line when I went for my front risers instead of over. I hurried the acceleration cycle because I knew I was getting low(right at 500') and went straight from brakes to fronts. This could have contributed by creating a loop with the excess brake line slack when I went to rears but I haven't pinpointed it for sure. I have a tendency to grab my rears high at the slinks also. Bottom line... I was a dumb ass who was fortunate enough to have the instincts to get myself out of it. Shit always happens when you're doing something you know you're not supposed to!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa0r00dHcf4

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i guess this is the problem with someone who think themselves are experienced enough.
when you at a new dz, with some rule that make you feel you are out of comfort zone, and still want to show off your mad swoop, but you fxxxup, then you started to blame on other things.
from my point of view, you made a wrong decision yourself, period.
by the way, the dz you visited, doesn't allow front riser as well.

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I agree. I never should have been there and won't ever go back. I didn't go in there sporting the full RDS being ridiculous and no one told me anything about a 'no riser' rule. I never even got a DZ briefing. He just took my money and said "15 minute call." I just knew he didn't allow more than a 90 onto final because of what I heard from other DZs. I did my thing thinking I was ok with a slow 90 after getting out on a low pass for 1 jump and I'd be on my way. Yes I was low, yes I carved out of it and yes I left quietly. Sorry if I offended you but thank you for your input. If I could remove this post I would. Obviously only one person has had any input about the snagged finger. Lesson learned.

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because you bring that up, one third of your original post were about the dz and wuffos.
now you are saying RDS and no briefing etc. aren't those your own responsibility?
didn't we learn in aff course to ask any question when don't know or un sure, don't wait till things happened.
and you did not offend me, it's all part of the sharing experience and discuss. this may help others to thinks before get hurt.
fly safe, fly responsibly

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I tried to recreate your malfunction with 6 different pairs of gloves and was unable to do so on good fitting ones. Only one pair, where the fingertips are quite loose, thin and already heavily frayed and not even on my fingers anymore I could set up what you experienced. With the steering line trapping it it needed a good yank to come free.
So to avoid something like this wear a pair of good fitting gloves. But you stated you did sooo.... Air gremlins! :P
Would be nasty if one has to bail out of his dive and has his finger trapped in the guidering by the break line... just another reason to jump a "third riser config"

You repreatedly stated you made a low pass hop'n pop to avoid any traffic. How come in the video a biggish, non xbraced canopy lands right before you and you cross his flight path on landing? That's not exactly my definition of "no traffic" :P

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To absent friends

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The gloves seem to be the culprit since I couldn't recreate it without them on. The canopy you see was a packer who got out to do a hop n pop also and he dumped at 3k to try and beat me down. I opened at 5k and hung out in brakes. We communicated on the plane and were well aware of eachothers flight plan. I told him I would follow his pattern and stay behind him, which I did. Since I was behind him I stayed to the right and kept it wide to not crowd his line. Separation was well over 500'. I should have said minimum traffic instead of no traffic. Thank you for the feedback. The lashings I'm getting are worth knowing the cause. Hopefully this thread helps keep someone else safe even if people think I'm dangerous.

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Yeah, I don't actually mind the other canopy that you cleared with appropriate distance. But since everybody here was bashing you I thought I'd jump on the bandwaggon and do my share of humiliating a fellow internet user asking for an opinion :):P

All jokes aside, you should work on your 90s. It would be pretty awkward to be able to rock those 630s but eat dirt on a simple 90, wouldn't it?


I bet you a hundred bucks that with the propper technique you could raise your initiation altitude by 200ft and still be able to come out dirty low like on this one.
The last time I started a 90 at 450ft I was still jumping a sabre2 150...

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To absent friends

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I still don't understand this "no front riser" business. I assume it is swoop related right? Are people allowed to use front risers for non-swoop reasons? Conversely- are you allowed to induce speed for landing with harness input of 90 degrees? Or a toggle hook?

I know some DZ's are not big on high performance canopy flight, but it seems like an odd way to go about that.
BASE 1384

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True statement on the altitude. Without the pendulum effect of a bigger rotation the wing simply doesn't recover on its own with 2.3 wing loading. It's hard to see but my Neptune said 540' when I initiated the 90. 750' is probably the wheel house. It's crazy because 950' is my normal 270 altitude. You would win the bet.

Not sure on the 'no riser' rule. Probably some bad incidents in the past. I have been told that DZO puts the squash on anything that might disrupt the well oiled tandem factory but that's hearsay coming from me. Thank you to those who have chimed in. I never mind embarrassing myself if it helps people learn and be safer.

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