0
cmulli4

Valkyrie 67 demo first jumps

Recommended Posts

Are you serious, this must be a joke on me, haha. Dangerously to close to its recovery arc, obviously you are a new canopy pilot. I hook and I do what a canopy wants. I know you will not understand this idea for about 10 years. The VK needs a lower turn, I don't like it, it's one of my complaints to the factory.

Do you see me digging, hitting the brakes or rears? No.

I'll happily answer amateurs questions. Please PM me, it saves dignity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Honestly, I'm not trying to change anything, or say that my way is better, actually I don't teach this. I've had alot of PM's about this and I'll just lay out my thoughts here...

I originally started doing the "reversal" 25 years ago. At that time and for 15 years it was "in my opinion good". Reason I liked it was because back in the day it was very difficult to get a canopy to dive. My theory was, get as high above the canopy as you can, therefore it takes longer to get under the canopy, the longer it takes you to get under the canopy the longer you dive, and therefore you gain more speed. That idea worked in my opinion until these new canopies came along... I'm saying the past 5-7 years.

No I don't believe that's it's the best way, I'm not sure. I also don't believe that it slows you down. If I do a 1080 after it, am I slower? What if I never did the reversal and only did the 1080? You see, what happens after the reversal? regardless, well...

Old habits die hard. And maybe I'm old, but that's the way I've been setting up since I was 11 years old, and that's what is easy for me.

I think hooks are somewhat personal, and a person needs to do what feels right for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

f I do a 1080 after it, am I slower?



With enough time in rotation, no you wouldn't be slower. But then that begs the question of why do it in the first place? Swooping is all about being efficient, it's a far cry from the game you may be familiar with from many years ago. Go look at the US Nationals, and WC Speed times and see how the top 10 speed (for example) are separated by milliseconds (cumulatively) after 3 rounds.

The bigger issue, honestly, is the childish rants you go on when you get resistance that maybe you're doing something wrong.

It's been my experience that the CP community is VERY open to helping people along regardless of their skill and competence. You've just gotta be open to receiving that advice, or you'll just be "that guy".

Ian
Performance Designs Factory Team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm so sorry Ian, the "childish rants" that I go on with were on a PM, I would call that far from a rant. Please feel free to re-post them, that way you can show everyone how much of an asshole I am.

Really, the question is the "moderator" starting shit. I have no problem you questioning my ability, my turn etc. You start questioning my reasoning ability, specifically my judgement, well FU. I am paid a lot more than you sepcifically for my reasoning ability. You want to make it personal. Well you just did. Call it a rant, if you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry you feel that way Charlie, but you're welcome to hold whatever opinion you'd like, of course

If you'd ever like any coaching I'd be happy to help. If you don't want it from me then I can highly recomend some world champs who can help you and tell you the same things I will.

Balls in your court

Ian
Performance Designs Factory Team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cmulli4

Are you serious, this must be a joke on me, haha. Dangerously to close to its recovery arc, obviously you are a new canopy pilot. I hook and I do what a canopy wants. I know you will not understand this idea for about 10 years. The VK needs a lower turn, I don't like it, it's one of my complaints to the factory.

Do you see me digging, hitting the brakes or rears? No.

I'll happily answer amateurs questions. Please PM me, it saves dignity.



You're either lying and aware of it or you believe what you're saying and are completely unaware of where you are in the controls during the dive. Either way it's scary!! Hook turns are a thing of the past.

https://vimeo.com/123978145

If you keep arguing I'll keep picking apart your videos!!
Nothing but stabage!!! In the toggles while the canopy is still vertical. I would honestly estimate about 350'-400' too low. Own it to earn respect or deny it to get none? I don't care... not my video:S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think these attacks on Charlie are mean-spirited and unwarranted. I also question the premise that he should be emulating today's top pilots. First, it didn't look like Charlie was competing in that video. Second, if you want to beat the best you need to do something differently. Do you think Nick Batsch was emulating the top pilots in every way when he rose to prominence? Nick developed techniques that people were laughing at then. Now the top pilots are emulating Nick.

What I see when watching Charlie's video is a talented pilot who is having a lot of fun and I thought the video was fun to watch (especially the unorthodox turn reversal!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kurbe105


Consistently being that far in the corner would likely earn a yellow card in competition, and possibly a red card if not rectified.

USPA U.S. National Canopy Piloting Championships Competition Rules

The first safety violation by a competitor will result in an YC from the Chief Judge to that competitor. YCs will be issued in general for unsafe actions, lack of sufficient canopy control or erratic canopy handling.


"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Nick developed techniques that people were laughing at then.



Not to my recollection. I don't remember ANYONE laughing at Nick for his techniques. He did, however, emulate the top pilots and then took what they were doing a step further. Exactly the same thing Curt has done, incredibly effectively.

In Charlies video, it sounds like he clips something "love tap"....am I off base on that? That is where my judgement comment came from, not the turn (or the toggle stab).

Demo'ing a new wing (and design), small canopy, no outs, stunt swoop AND clips something. Yes, to me, that's questionable judgement.

Ian
ps: I've certainly made my fair share of stupid decisions, but I own them too.
Performance Designs Factory Team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cmulli4
It's entertaining to watch someone with such damn good experience under canopy, must be a blast to experience it first person. You seem like a true original who have invented your own wheel. It may not be the most effective approach for competing, but for entertainment purpose you sure hit the g-spot.

I understand why some people take the defensive stance to criticism as it's sometimes hard to differentiate between solid advice and opinions from elitists and self proclaimed locally backed experts who tend to present their opinions on everything as absolute facts and almost taking offense when someone isn't willing to agree or give in to their perspective of thinking.

It's too easy to lecture someone, backing it up by posting a link to a video of Nick Batsch or Curt Bartholomew landing their canopies with such skill it's almost painful to watch and say: "This is how you do it!". It sure is, they are beyond good, but still there has to be some middle ground where someone can be highly experienced w/o having to eat a shit-sandwish for not doing it like the regular guys :P

Unless the person posting happen to be Nick, Curt, or Ian ;) and then adding some constructive criticism without calling anyone an idiot it doesn't add much credibility to the conversation.

Thanks for sharing some awesome videos, and very interesting reading from a social point of view.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
raymod2

I think these attacks on Charlie are mean-spirited and unwarranted. I also question the premise that he should be emulating today's top pilots. First, it didn't look like Charlie was competing in that video. Second, if you want to beat the best you need to do something differently. Do you think Nick Batsch was emulating the top pilots in every way when he rose to prominence? Nick developed techniques that people were laughing at then. Now the top pilots are emulating Nick.

What I see when watching Charlie's video is a talented pilot who is having a lot of fun and I thought the video was fun to watch (especially the unorthodox turn reversal!)



Be careful what you say when you name drop. Nick Batsch was very much emulating someone when he started breaking records, Jay Moledzki to be exact. I know because I was there in Lake Wales Dec 2005 when Nick, myself, and a few others trained for a week with him(don't get me started on acceleration and deceleration cycles). When we all left to go back to the grind after the holiday, Nick stayed behind to train with Jay for another week. Why? Because Jay was the best in the world at that time and that's who Nick wanted to be better than. After that it was hours of studying tape and working to perfect his body position through the corner.

I specifically remember Jay putting the smack down on one of our buds because he was consistently coming close to a dynamic stall on rear risers while coming through the corner. That's what he was comfortable with but that's no reason for Jay to let it continue when he knew how dangerous it really was. Thanks to Jay's coaching and tough love our friend Robert was throwing down superman's a few months later.

Charlie is Charlie and has always been able to get away with things others can't his entire life, some people are just like that. It's entertaining in a 'Ridiculousness' kind of way.

That being said I'm the first to admit when I over state something. I did notice 1 for sure, maybe 2 swoops(couldn't tell from the shadow) in the first video where there was no toggle input until the very end and those swoops were very long and powerful. The majority however have quite a bit of toggle input before even planing out and this is just WRONG for the norm under a HP x-braced canopy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Charlie I'm no protege. Nick and I learned together and then he went off to become amazing after our Twin Otter crashed in '06 and I went on to end up owning a fair amount of Taco Bell restaurants in So Cal. If you get to know them well then you will learn you have to adopt their techniques to be able to beat them. I promise you if I see a post with you showing the same skill and control they have I will be your biggest fan and promoter!!

I was at the Hill Billy Boogie, Mt Vernon MO June 2006 when your dad brought one of his King Airs in. Your little brother was there and we were simply amazed that he wasn't smacking the ground. He would literally initiate a 90/270 front riser whip lower than Nick and I were coming out of our dives(we were guessing he was starting at about 350'-400'). If it weren't for the cross braces and him being so small, I would have thought it was you under your old Batwing you brought to Quantum Leap when you got your AFF rating. I remember thinking, "He hooks low like his brother." That's just the image you've always had and you may have to work a little harder to shake that label.

You're an icon Charlie and people look up to you, but with that comes a huge amount of responsibility. If people wanted to be like me, I would aspire to leverage my strengths and isolate my weaknesses. If you would open yourself to learning others techniques, you have the natural talent to operate on their level and be a major ambassador for the discipline.

All you have to do is make a statement like 'My technique may be a little old school but I'm looking forward to learning new techniques to run with the big boys Wink' and you would instantly gain everyone's respect back.

I'll start another thread with a video of mine from a jump that got me kicked out of Lodi. Just to show you how to properly handle criticism when it comes your way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Like I said before, I just posted a video, that's it. You are unfourtenately nothing like Nick, and I don't even know him.

If I ever see you (don't know who you are, but working in that) you had better start running. You are a bad person who only wants to stir the pot and do bad things for swooping.

Like I said, do you value your teeth? If so, I suggest you stay clear of me. You are the not even worth of the pond shit you came out of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry you feel that way Charlie, but you're welcome to hold whatever opinion you'd like, of course

If you'd ever like any coaching I'd be happy to help. If you don't want it from me then I can highly recomend some world champs who can help you and tell you the same things I will.

Balls in your court

Ian

Do you think in a million years I'd take coaching from you? Seriously? That is so fucking funny. First, I have a coach, second...well...I'll do the right thing here and say nothing.


Performance Designs Factory Team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Still I think you should protect your teeth.



Bold words, and not acceptable here. Get your ego, and your temper in check. If your delicate feelings can't handle it here, feel free to go elsewhere.

Quote

Do you think in a million years I'd take coaching from you? Seriously? That is so fucking funny. First, I have a coach, second...well...I'll do the right thing here and say nothing.



As I suggested, I can point you in the direction of a few world champs I know who'll be happy to coach you. Doesn't have to be me by any means ;)

Ian
Performance Designs Factory Team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now that that is all over (hopefully) there were a few people that actually had legitimate questions over Charlie's reversal technique. I don't want to speak for Charlie but I would like to expound on it a bit for them.

The bottom line is that if you aren't doing it now there is no reason to start. It won't help you. It won't make you go faster. It also won't make you go slower or shorten your swoop. It is just a technique for set up more than anything.

As far as negatively affecting your ability to accurately judge altitude that is patently false. I could make the exact same argument for someone not doing a reversal. But I won't because if your technique works for you then do that. Obviously a lot of us are type A's here but one thing I have to constantly remind people of, including myself, is that just because you can't do something doesn't mean it can't be done.

If anyone has specific questions feel free to pm me, I'm not going to get into in public as I've seen what happens to people who just try to help or post a video to share. Kind of like having the nerve to question global warming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
raises hand politely. I have a video that charlie shot in the early 90's. at sparta illinois. a big way attempt out of the k/a that either worked or almost worked. he was wearing a lipstick cam on a white hockey helmet. that had a hard wired compact vhs-c deck inside his jumpsuit. it was either one of his 1st video jumps or the 1st one . please ask it he has or wants the video . i have it on og vhs and 1st gen dvd.blue skies to all
i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

As far as negatively affecting your ability to accurately judge altitude that is patently false.



It creates a more complicated sight picture. I would postulate that if you take 100 swoopers, the majority will find altitude judgment easier on the traditional turn because of its simplicity and lighter mental load.

You and Charlie might be exceptions but for the vast majority of swoopers keeping it simple is easier and more efficient.

It's an interesting discussion with few hard facts. Some we now can establish (placement, speed) with the help of technology - others such as judging altitude are harder to get some good data on. We'd need some a proper control group and even so it'd be difficult to isolate just the variables we're looking at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0