0
evan85

When to start working on turns bigger than 90

Recommended Posts

Hi all, I'm starting to get into swooping (or maybe you say it's not really "swooping" if I'm still just doing 90s -- that's fine). Right now I'm flying a safire 2 149 loaded a touch under 1.3. I've been working on double front to FR 90s, nice slow carve, working it so that i plane out with as little input as possible, etc. I'll soon be jumping a safire2 139 (w/l ~1.35) for a while while I wait for some new gear to arrive, then will be on a safire 2 129 (w/l ~1.45), with plans after that to go over to xfire 2 129 (w/l ~1.45), then 119 (w/l ~1.55), then 109 (w/l ~1.7). Please assume for the sake of this post that I'll take all the time necessary at each step (including all of the canopy control checklists, etc.) before downsizing, because (a) I will; and (b) that's not the point of this post.

My question is this: at what point does it make sense for me to start working on turns greater than 90s? I know that a big part of this answer is "when I'm ready" -- so yes, I'll be working with other experienced canopy pilots who I trust, including canopy coaches, to make sure that I'm ready. What I'm asking here is more about what canopy and what wingloading should I be on before I start working on bigger turns?

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You should work on bigger turns if your turn becomes boring to you.

I firmly believe that you'll never master certain turns. Some might say that you should "master" 90 before you move on. I call bullshit. You can never master any type of turn, and be dialed in 100%.

You move on to bigger turn once you feel ready. Asking DZ.com is like worst thing to do, since no one has seen your landing.

If you are asking questions, you kinda aren't ready yet. I moved to 270 once I felt like I was ready, and I moved on the 450 once I got bored with doing 270's.

However I feel like there is certain canopy/wingloading requirement to do certain turns.

With non-xbraced/low wing loading(less than 1.5), I feel safer to keep the rotation less than 180, and I feel like it is necessary to load your canopy above 1.5 to start doing 270's.

With x-braced/high wing loading(more than 2.2), I feel safer to do bigger rotation like 450's.

And to move on to 630's, I feel like I need to downsize and up the wingloading beyond 2.5.

All those are my bullshit theory.

I started to do 270 with my Katana 150 loaded at 1.4-1.5 at around 500-600 jumps. I really thought that skydivers have to be riding x-brace at 1000 jumps so I was working towards that goal.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
my experience is that I have about 800 jumps on safires, currently loaded around 1.5 on a 129 and really, doing 270s on that is kind of scary. You really need to be right on the money to get a good swoop on it without any inputs, but it is forgiving and recovers very fast when you find yourself low.
Im waiting to get on a different wing with a longer recovery arc before I really try to start learning 270s.
Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I learned to swoop on a Safire 2 159 @ 1.4:1. I found anything over a 180, I'd have to do a carving swoop along the turf or I would pop up. My coach was laughing at me cruising along at 10ft desperately trying to keep my fronts down. If you're not exact, you'll be high or low. Not much adjustment time once you come out of your turn. I was able to get long carving 270s and 360's even and keep them level at the ground. There seemed to be a speed limit before I would swing out and pop up. Most of it was my transitions I'm sure. I got a nitro 150right now, and it's a little better, but same kind of thing with popping up. The katana I demoed on the other hand, I could come out 50 ft high and just pull the risers down some more and viola! Anyone wanna trade me a katana for my nitro?
I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
those were some of my reason why I felt the need for certain wing loading/canopy type in order to do certain degree of turns.

You can do big 630's with Safire loaded at 1.2 but it will be really difficult and dangerous. However using a right tool, such as velo or katana loaded at 2.5, it becomes much easier to do that turns.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't really think it's safe to be doing larger turns on a wing that recovers as quickly as a safire 2 (or nitro, or stiletto, etc), mostly because the recovery arc makes it so that you either have to initiate your swoop really low (i.e. not much chance of correction if you're getting it wrong) or you need to be the recovery arc of the wing (i.e. you sloooowly release the fronts as you're completing your turn) which is clearly prone to inconsistency. My own personal experience has been that, even with a Crossfire 2 109 loaded at about 1.6, I'd be managing the recovery in order to deal with the very positive recovery cycle of the wing. I'm not really looking to do a 90º from 150 ft and you're also penalized on a wing like that for generating more power (i.e. more lift - more positive recovery).

If you really want to get into swooping, you should be picking your canopies to match your desired use. The Safire 2 isn't a good choice due to the really short recovery. You're better off working with a Sabre 2, it's not a long recovery by any means but plenty of people have learnt 270ºs safely on them and the recovery is longer than a Safire 2.

/opinionfromnonexpert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm learning with the Sabre2 and was asking myself the same question as well. So I did some CP coaching this last weekend especifically on my turns, if I was doing something wrong or if I could already go to 180s or further.

The feed back I recieved was that my 90s were very good and I could start doing 180s and as soon as they were good I could go to my 270s.
That was a well respected coach here in Brazil, he is a national CP champion.

I jump a Sabre2 170 loaded at 1.4 and have about 400 Jumps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Find a coach to physically teach you and progress from there. There's no magical point at which you receive a decree that says you are now allowed to turn >90 degrees. Take it slow, take it easy, and make sure you have a proper wing. I can't stress enough having someone who knows wtf they are doing watching you and providing feedback. Don't start hucking turns because you can. You'll pick up bad habits that make an already dangerous discipline even more dangerous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0