AADs and swooping

[raymod2 1]

I stopped using an AAD ever since my Vigil fired during a swoop and my reserve dragged me into the swoop pond at Mile Hi. At one time I considered buying a speed CYPRES. The firing parameters are as follows:

activation speed: 96mph (old firmware), 102mph (new firmware)
activation altitude: 750 feet to 330 feet

However, I've noticed it is possible to trigger these firing parameters with the new generation of canopies. I've seen a Peregrine hit 97mph at sea level and I've seen a Petra hit 101mph at 5000' MSL. Peak speed usually occurs around 400 feet.

I'm curious if anyone has been swooping with a speed CYPRES and if there have been any incidents.

[sfdoc00 0]

Just 0.02 from a non-swooper, but I wonder why AAD and container manufacturers do not work out a way to make the controller accessible under canopy. Like a mudflap, chest strap, leg strap or w/e so they could then be turned off just prior to initiating their turn. Again, not a swooper but it seems to me that there are swoopers who do not jump AADs due to similar concerns and IDK if this is a viable solution to some of them.

[Irm1u 0]

More stuff to fondle with = more stuff that can go wrong...

I want my ADD as simple as possible, because if I need it, its probably my last chance.

[cs_troyk 0]

Fundamentally, there's no way for the Cypres (or any AAD) to distinguish an aggressive high-performance approach from a cutaway/no-pull scenario (given the current designs). The acceleration profiles are the same and occur at similar altitudes.

Back in 2003, I showed that the original Cypres could be made to fire under a fully open canopy (despite the advertising campaign at the time, "Good for Swooping").

The release of the "speed" version a couple years (and one high-profile fatality) later was a temporary leapfrog, but the landing techniques and equipment have once again improved to the point where AAD's and high-performance landings are simply not compatible.

Choose one or the other.

[Skydivesg 6]

When someone is jumping just to swoop why do they need an AAD turned on?

That usually means they are jumping solo.

If they are doing a big enough turn to reach 80-100 mph then I certainly don't want to be in the same air space with them, and most jumpers I've talked with concur.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[GoneCodFishing 23]

Banging the head on exit? Passing out from last night's hangover? Camera flyer on a tandem only load getting kicked in the face by the TI? Mad skillz inducing enough G's to knock you out before you get a chance to chop? Perfect chance to spend hard earned cash in shinny kit?

Plenty of reasons why an AAD could be a good idea

[GoneCodFishing 23]

Skydivesg

When someone is jumping just to swoop why do they need an AAD turned on?

Don't you have over there also a 'rule' that if you have an AAD in your rig it must be turned on and fully working?

[Skydivesg 6]

GoneCodFishing

***When someone is jumping just to swoop why do they need an AAD turned on?

Don't you have over there also a 'rule' that if you have an AAD in your rig it must be turned on and fully working?

Nope.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[GoneCodFishing 23]

Alright, i thought that was pretty standard. It is under BPA.

[justme12001 0]

There is/was an AAD just as you describe, I think it was called "Astra".

The unit was mounted on the mud flap, and had a simple on/off switch that had a clear cover that slid up and down to protect the switch.

I don't know why it wasn't or isn't popular. I have only ever seen one person with one, and that was when I first started jumping about 10 yrs ago.

[Remster 24]

justme12001

There is/was an AAD just as you describe, I think it was called "Astra".

The unit was mounted on the mud flap, and had a simple on/off switch that had a clear cover that slid up and down to protect the switch.

I don't know why it wasn't or isn't popular. I have only ever seen one person with one, and that was when I first started jumping about 10 yrs ago.

Because most people did not want a design like this (in fairness, it had other issues, like HAVING to turn it off after each jump if you wanted the batteries to last, etc)

Designing an AAD for such a small portion of an already small market probably doesn't make much sense for manufacturers.

Remster

[ianmdrennan 2]

I stopped turning mine on for PI jumps a while back. I do still keep it on (Speed Cypres) for every other kind of jump.

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Luck 0]

I was happy with the Argus... (untill they banned it).
In swoop mode, once the canopy was open, it switched to standby mode.
Still think this is a good solution.

[ridebmxbikes 0]

Since the aad's are already controlled by a computer device why can't they make them customizable? "Oh, you're a swooper?"Just set the firing point to 2000' and have it shut off at 1000' or what ever you want.

If im gonna spend 1500 bucks on an electronic device i should be able to customize the settings

[yoink 321]

No chance.

The chance of user error is too high. I know some skydivers who can barely operate their phones and you want them to be able to accurately determine what firing parameters are best for their individual jumps and THEN configure the device properly?




Ther'd be 2-outs and no-fires all over the place.

[ozzy13 0]

Well funny this is here. I have great video of a vigil 2 with 90 velo 700ft turn 270 deg turn.... enjoy
Edited to add it was set in pro. Waiting to get reading from unit..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7RmO6G31Zo&list=UUbc1jnPIWqltXd2U0WZ9P1g

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[ozzy13 0]

Vigil was put in student mode somehow. As put reading off unit.

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[piisfish 135]

ozzy13

Vigil was put in student mode somehow. As put reading off unit.

welcome to "customized settings"

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[ozzy13 0]

piisfish

***Vigil was put in student mode somehow. As put reading off unit.

welcome to "customized settings"


Yea. Geeez. Things that make you go hmmmmm

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[ridebmxbikes 0]

ozzy13

******Vigil was put in student mode somehow. As put reading off unit.

welcome to "customized settings"


Yea. Geeez. Things that make you go hmmmmm

learn something new everyday

[Remster 24]

piisfish

welcome to "customized settings"

Yep.

Remster

[jjudd 0]

Quote

I stopped using an AAD ever since my Vigil fired during a swoop and my reserve dragged me into the swoop pond at Mile Hi. At one time I considered buying a speed CYPRES. The firing parameters are as follows:

activation speed: 96mph (old firmware), 102mph (new firmware)
activation altitude: 750 feet to 330 feet

However, I've noticed it is possible to trigger these firing parameters with the new generation of canopies. I've seen a Peregrine hit 97mph at sea level and I've seen a Petra hit 101mph at 5000' MSL. Peak speed usually occurs around 400 feet.

I'm curious if anyone has been swooping with a speed CYPRES and if there have been any incidents.

I use mine all the time on my comp velo, keep in mind these are fun jumps- thus im not loaded up more then 2.4-2.6 depending on how fat i am at the time and typically not doing more then a 270 if that on those jumps.

I keep it on in that rig if i switch to hop and pops for the afternoon too up to 630s on the vc at 2.7 just because i don't go in and turn it off, its very hard to reach the firing parameters on a vc unless you really load up and are jumping 5000asl it could be close then, use your best judgement.

Heres my 2cents, if you have a canopy out and are unconcious (hard opening collision etc) its going to be very unlikely that the speed version will fire on most wings so no harm there, and it elimintes the saftey issues of swooping with a cypress on almost all jumps, if your doing dedicated cp training i opt not to use it, but i owe it to my friends and family to give myself every opportunity fro survival on all other jumps. Keep in mind Cypress is awesome and will change your aad to whatever mode on your service or if you send it in.

On my petra i do not turn it on at all ever and if i forgot and fun jumped it with it on ( which wont ever happen because thats a comp wing not for fun jumping) it would be a straight in landing. Nz's Leia may change the fun jump and swoop with a cypress scenario but again if were fun jumping there is no reason to get your swoop on with 20+ other jumpers in the air, all smaller turn in a dedicated area is still very risky with all the traffic,

all cp training and comp hop and pops i leave it off always, keep in mind your only chance for an issue where you need it is very limited in those scenarios

[sundevil777 93]

I saw a person a few weeks ago with the control unit mounted on the mudflap as if it was an Astra (it wasn't, I know the difference).

Has this not been done by others. Of course going through the steps to turn it off under canopy is not ideal, but just wanted to mention that someone has done it.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[sundevil777 93]

justme12001

There is/was an AAD just as you describe, I think it was called "Astra".

The unit was mounted on the mud flap, and had a simple on/off switch that had a clear cover that slid up and down to protect the switch.

I don't know why it wasn't or isn't popular. I have only ever seen one person with one, and that was when I first started jumping about 10 yrs ago.

A couple threads to start the education about the Astra:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4195907#4195907

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=452588#452588

It is really pathetic what FXC did/did not do with the Astra. They had a clear target to aim for in terms of their competition and failed miserably.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[sfdoc00 0]

So it seems as if the only drawback was it was toooooo easy to turn on/off. Accidentally at times. Seems like a pretty straightforward design fix. Going through the menus of a Vigil or Cypress would probably be task saturating but again, seems like an easy design fix. I may be wrong. Longer control cable and cutter cable and a software update for the start-up / shutdown procedures. A container modification for routing the control cable. Its seems as if there is a market for it.