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Nerra

How aggressively did you down size?

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30-100 Pilot 190 @ 1.0
100-200 safire2 159 @ 1.2
200-700 safire2 149 @ 1.29
700-880 Safire1 129 @ 1.5/1.6 as the saf1 is actually a bit smaller.

looking at a crossfire 119 @ 1.6 and will be spending a very long time there I think.
Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

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Please excuse the selective quoting, I hope it can be forgiven in the name of making a point about people's thinking.

Jiggs

Good fundamentals generally develop slowly

It also gets harder to learn on a higher performance wing



Slowly. A hundred jumps on one canopy is not even a tiny bit "slowly".

The question most of the guys (and it is always young men) need to ask themselves is this:

Do I want to get good? Or do I just want to be able to say "I rock a Katana 120, what's your wing?"

Honest answers on a postcard.
--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

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well to piggyback on what you just said, ill explain myself, even though i dont have to. ask anyone that knows me and jumps with me, and theyll say im fine where im at.

im 35, i dont think that puts me in the young men category.
the reason i am flying a pilot 132 at my wingloading (besides buying a container first and then a canopy) is that i am now at the perfect performance level where i can continue risers turns with all hip input for a few revolutions, i am coming in on no wind days where its nice and fast but not so much that im scared and out of control. the pilot is awesome for wingsuiting, its been nothing but buttery openings on heading. and also, this is exactly where im gonna be at for the next many years to come. i have no reason to downsize again, and i can milk the SHIT out of this canopy for hundreds of jumps, and have enough performance to start to do more than 90's/double front approaches, if i so choose.

i like coming in fast, i speedfly the equivalent of a fully elliptical 120, so EVERYTIME i come in on my speedwing i am swooping, and coming in FAST, alot faster than my pilot. not to mention i am quite comfortable with braked approaches, flat turns, etc from BASE jumping into nasty shit. i have practiced maneuvers under my sky canopy for when the day comes that i have to avoid someone or something, without cranking a toggle and pounding in to the ground.

anyways thats my story , everyone is different. i realize the risks involved and i accept them in my risk vs reward model.
cheers and be safe everyone
gravity brings me down.........

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There have been similar threads before but I'll play again:

For my regular sport canopies:

Jumps 1-40 -------- Manta & similar
Jumps 41-590 ------ Titan 265 (WL 0.65)
Jumps 591 - 775 --- still the Titan (or a Parafoil) but 35 jumps on a Sabre 135 (WL 1.25) I bought

Then after only 90 jumps on anything above 1.2 wing loading:

Jumps 775+ -- FX 88 (WL 1.95-2.05) (Tried it out at jump 550 but didn't buy until later)


The situation is a little different with borrowed canopies where may downsize a lot faster than for one's regular canopy -- there it was more like going from 200+ sq ft, downsizing through 3 smaller canopies over 12 jumps, and then going to a Jonathan 92 (WL 1.9)for a few jumps from jump #205.

In the old days, downsizing meant "do a couple jumps on a canopy and if you feel comfortable with the flare and twitchiness, you can go down another size".

It probably helped that I was a pilot & aero engineer. Still, getting into ground hungry crossbraced canopies was a huge step.

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ridebmxbikes

Jump# 4, 215 something
Jumps #5-29, 175 something
Jumps 30-150, sabre 135 @ 1.06
Jumps 150-300, sabre 120 @ 1.3
Jumps 300-400, katana 120 @1.3
Jumps 400-till, katana 107 @1.5

Ive always been the conservative type



That's not conservative. You might be capable, but that progression is not conservative.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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kinda quick
Manta 260 ( student rig) 40 jumps
Lazer 210 first rig 175 jumps
sabre 150 second rig 250 jumps @1.5 WL
Samuri 136 900 jumps @1.6 WL
Sensei 101 400 jumps and counting @ 2.1 WL

No broken bones!!!!
growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional.

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Usually I've been very reluctant to post this kind of information for the reason that I don't want to listen to all the flaming it could result in. But since I just came home from a canopy course where I received a lot of nice words from my coach about my flying, I couldn't care less about the potential flaming, so here it goes :)
#0-40: PD-260/230/210
#41-50: Sabre2 190
#51-190: Sabre 170
#191-299: Sabre2 135
#300-400: Sabre2 120
#401-624: Katana 120
#624-632: Katana 107
#633-now: Velocity 96 @ WL 2.0

Back when I was flying my Sabre 170, I almost smashed myself. That is without a doubt the most valuable lesson I have ever had in this sport and I will never forget it.
My transition to the Katana was because my canopy coach told me that I was ready for it, and the transition to the Velo was because i felt ready for it. After seeing my fly the Velo, my coach was impressed with my flying.
If you want to downsize and especially if you want to downsize as agressively as I have, please do yourself the favour of speaking to someone who knows what he/she is talking about.

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Willi91

Usually I've been very reluctant to post this kind of information for the reason that I don't want to listen to all the flaming it could result in. But since I just came home from a canopy course where I received a lot of nice words from my coach about my flying, I couldn't care less about the potential flaming, so here it goes :)
#0-40: PD-260/230/210
#41-50: Sabre2 190
#51-190: Sabre 170
#191-299: Sabre2 135
#300-400: Sabre2 120
#401-624: Katana 120
#624-632: Katana 107
#633-now: Velocity 96 @ WL 2.0

If you want to downsize and especially if you want to downsize as agressively as I have, please do yourself the favour of speaking to someone who knows what he/she is talking about.



Yeah, and if they hold your mad skillz back, find a better coach! :P

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I love the video. Not crazy about the implication swooping is all about looking cool though. Heard that way to much and only applies to some and not swoopers as a whole. Still a pretty funny video even with that error.
That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

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Maybe that's your opinion, but it's definately not mine :)In addition to what I wrote I might need to add that if I was told to stay on my canopy I sure as hell would have stayed on my canopy instead of downsizing.
I understand that I may look like an ignorant DGIT with mad skillz, but please note that I have had coaching during the most important of my downsizes :)

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Willi91

Maybe that's your opinion, but it's definately not mine :)In addition to what I wrote I might need to add that if I was told to stay on my canopy I sure as hell would have stayed on my canopy instead of downsizing.
I understand that I may look like an ignorant DGIT with mad skillz, but please note that I have had coaching during the most important of my downsizes :)



its coz some people cant figure out how to fly canopies and need 2million jumps to downsize,,,so everyones expected to do the same,,
FTMC

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Willi91

Maybe that's your opinion, but it's definately not mine :)In addition to what I wrote I might need to add that if I was told to stay on my canopy I sure as hell would have stayed on my canopy instead of downsizing.
I understand that I may look like an ignorant DGIT with mad skillz, but please note that I have had coaching during the most important of my downsizes :)





you've jumped 3 sizes and a performance upgrade in 12 jumps.

Just to be clear, for any new skydivers reading this, this is generally considered fucking stupid.
Because 1 person gets away with it, doesn't make it a good idea.

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skow

You can also see it this way:

After jumping 223 jumps on KA120, he decided to downsize to Velo96, and tested KA107 for 8 jumps before the switch.

Doesn't seem that stupid for me.



theres also another way...simple explanation,,maybe hes just not a pussy lol
FTMC

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I'm with Yoink on this one.

Going from a 120 Katana to a Velo 96 is just dumb.

Could the person in question really do 270s and adjust for differences in height loss during the turn to ensure that they executed a perfect swoop each time (and on target) on their Katana first? I doubt it. The Katana may have been a little big for what the individual wanted to achieve, but it would have made more sense to pause at a 109 Katana first for a few hundred jumps, then go to the Velo.

There's a big jump to crossbraced canopies that should never be underestimated. For instance, my experience with initiation heights for a 270 degree turn the way I do it (btw, wingloading isn't much of a factor in these differences, more the planform):

Safire2 129 @ 1.65 - 600ft
Crossfire2 109 @ 1.8 - 680ft
Velocity 96 @ 2.0 - 800ft
Velocity 90 @ 2.2 - 800ft

Yoink gets the point...
--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

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Pendragon



Going from a 120 Katana to a Velo 96 is just dumb.



It's not that much of a stretch. Not recommended, perhaps, but only equivalent to skipping one size.

PD's recommended Velocity after a KA120 is the VE103 - one size above the 96.

I did the KA120 to VE103 transition and the difference was pretty gentle. The Katana is a no-shit divey mo-fo and, in the PD progression I think that the big jump is from the Sabre2 to the Katana.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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The point regarding downsizing 20% and changing planform simultaneously still stands... Oh, and yes, I'm well aware of how different canopies fly. I've flown enough of them.

Actually, wearing lead can help to increase the wingloading on the larger canopy - but I don't expect this was done here.

I'm sorry, but why defend a silly decision? Also, why would someone post on these forums such a history?

I also realise that it is often the way that people can downsize in waves (currency also plays a part). However, a simple rule of thumb is that your wingloading (in lbs/sq ft) shouldn't be too far from your total jumps divided by 1,000 + 1 (so 1.0/1.1 when you get your "A" licence; 2.0 at 1,000 jumps). If it is, then it's always interesting to find out why. Maybe this person has 600+ hop n pops and is an experienced paraglider pilot... or maybe not. Canopy progression here says it all really...
--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

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Never going to convince a minority that it's daft.

My post was made for the people with 200 jumps who lurk here. Just because a couple of people do it doesn't make it a good idea and nobody else was saying it clearly.

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Pendragon

The point regarding downsizing 20% and changing planform simultaneously still stands...



The change in planform is not really a factor here - the VE is less tapered than the KA and has a lower aspect ratio.

The fact that it is a x-brace is largely irrelevant in this, as x-braces are designed to fly well at higher WL than non-braced canopies.

Quote

I'm sorry, but why defend a silly decision?



I'm not defending the decision. I don't know the guy - I could not possibly do that.

What I am trying to do is counter (with facts) the knee-jerk reaction that this is a massive jump in performance and therefore unsafe in any situation.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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