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Sakeryzf

New Prototype NZ Aerosports 'Petra-lite'

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Fair one, let me rephrase that. If you don't know what the term 'x braced' means or how it relates to a canopy, then this topic has little to offer you, its no spectre or storm and the term 'everyday' is being used in the context of high performance wings. I'm keen on this design, have been wanting to fly a Shulman wing since the petra showed up but can't justify a petra now I'm no longer competing, hope it makes it to a final product.

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OK perhaps a little clarification is require, my intention wasn't to infer this canopy was for anyone, it is a huge leap in modern canopy design and is focused on the experienced canopy pilot who is looking for the next step.

Petra is basically a comp wing. However there has been a high level of interest even from non competitive pilots. Petra lite is intended to offer a level of performance close to Petra but without the hassles of comp fabric, lines and full RDS.

Petra- Lite is intended for daily use , which the full sail Petra is not really so suitable for.

Performance wise it is well above a JVX.

Chris.

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Sakeryzf

OK perhaps a little clarification is require, my intention wasn't to infer this canopy was for anyone, it is a huge leap in modern canopy design and is focused on the experienced canopy pilot who is looking for the next step.

Petra is basically a comp wing. However there has been a high level of interest even from non competitive pilots. Petra lite is intended to offer a level of performance close to Petra but without the hassles of comp fabric, lines and full RDS.

Petra- Lite is intended for daily use , which the full sail Petra is not really so suitable for.

Performance wise it is well above a JVX.

Chris.



can you use a full RDS or just a removable slider? guessing yes but have to ask.
and any idea about what standard sizes it will come in.

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You can have a full RDS on a ZP JVX, I don't see how you wouldn't be able to have one on the Petra-lite, since it is a slider configuration.
The reason for me to have a removable slider is visibility and safety, I had a few times the slider to come up mid swoop, but, unless you start competing, I dont see the real benefit of a full RDS.

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DivingWombat

******Makes me wonder if PD announces a 7cell Peregrine-lite...by chance, just a couple of months later B|



You mean the Comp Velocity?

You're a wee bit late there with your conspiracy theory!

That has nothing to do with a conspiracy theory.

Interesting that you think petra lite, designed for everyday use is on pair with a comp velocity.

Maybe you're right. In view of the discussion about the lack of an RDS, maybe it's more on par with a regular Velocity.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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Pablo.Moreno

You can have a full RDS on a ZP JVX, I don't see how you wouldn't be able to have one on the Petra-lite, since it is a slider configuration.
The reason for me to have a removable slider is visibility and safety, I had a few times the slider to come up mid swoop, but, unless you start competing, I dont see the real benefit of a full RDS.



i know but on this site you have to ask.
i jump a full rds already on my velo. i don't compete and the benefits i get from it are what you mentioned, visibility for safety and i've experienced better openings with full rds.

edit: what i should have asked is when you order one, is a rds an option?

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Moot point but the canopy is in testing and it could be quite a while before it's available (if ever).

What i've gleaned so far it's being designed as a step up in performance from the JVX and is being billed for everyday use and like the JVX it will be available to order in a non comp specced configuration with regards to line set etc making it suitable for everyday use with regards to highly experienced fun jumping/swooping.
I'm guessing like the JVX, RDS will more than likely be a option at the time of ordering. same with line sets, or as a after market option from the likes of Para-concepts etc, much in the same way as the option of a RDS is available for most if not all existing X-braced canopies out there.
.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

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I think OP's description of Petra lite is a little misleading. This canopy is designed for those cross braced canopy pilots who have fully explored canopies like the jvx or velocity and what something a little more but not to the extreme of the petra which is most likely a sub-terminal-only canopy for competitive swooping. The petra is not a practical canopy for everyday use - thus the P-lite.

The P-lite is probably being designed for full terminal deployment and can be used in most skydiving day-to-day applications but again the target skydiver would be the velo or jvx pilot with thousands of jumps to his/her credit on that particular wing. Unless the p-lite flight characteristics are going to be very similar to the jvx/velo, then there are only a small fraction of jumpers who should even consider the p-lite let alone the original petra.

I suspect a big increase in incidents will occur when these wings are let loose on the market. :(

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skydivah1



I suspect a big increase in incidents will occur when these wings are let loose on the market. :(


I suspect your're wrong, I know a few jumpers who fly the Petra, they are experienced jumpers, still alive and loving their canopy choice, main benefit of the shulman wing shape is the low speed lift avaliable on toggles. If a person should want to become a hole in the ground there are plenty of sub 80 sqft wings available of the non Petra variety.

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Not sure I agree with you 100% there. The problem is that people are downsizing aggressively as well when changing to the wing. If all people were doing were lateral moves, then yes I think the increased risk is minimal. Reality is, people aren't and are generally loading well above 3.0 now.

Ian
Performance Designs Factory Team

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I think OP's description of Petra lite is a little misleading. This canopy is designed for those cross braced canopy pilots who have fully explored canopies like the jvx or velocity and what something a little more but not to the extreme of the petra which is most likely a sub-terminal-only canopy for competitive swooping. The petra is not a practical canopy for everyday use - thus the P-lite.

The P-lite is probably being designed for full terminal deployment and can be used in most skydiving day-to-day applications but again the target skydiver would be the velo or jvx pilot with thousands of jumps to his/her credit on that particular wing. Unless the p-lite flight characteristics are going to be very similar to the jvx/velo, then there are only a small fraction of jumpers who should even consider the p-lite let alone the original petra.

I suspect a big increase in incidents will occur when these wings are let loose on the market. Frown



FYI the Petra all sail and rds can be taken to terminal no problem, it opens great, alot of the jumpers use it for fun jumps as well as their competitons, i can name several pilots here no problem that do that, some at a lighter loading without lead on some at the same as their regular loading. Also think a 8-10 second delay with lead on your at terminal or faster already. No issues on terminal there.

As well the large number of incidents you suspect, I highly doubt that will increase. You can do just as much damage on a katana at a 1.6 loading or a crossfire if your not supposed to be on a wing like that.

No one is going to let someone jump one of these that shouldn't be.

This wing will be in the hands of good people just like the petra and peregrine are now. How many incidents have you seen on those wings with those pilots? By my count other then small skips off the pond in a window that is so small any error will result in that, I count 0 incidents on these forums of people smashing into the ground on them from poor judgement

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One broken femur + injured neck in Dubai last November with a pilot under a Peregrine. Could have been another one with a Petra, but fortunately the pond was in the right place and forgiving enough to let the pilot (and the rest of us) off with wet pants.
Accidents have been happening with JVX and Comp Velos, I see no reason why it would be different with even more aggressive canopies.

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This wing will be in the hands of good people just like the petra and peregrine are now. How many incidents have you seen on those wings with those pilots? By my count other then small skips off the pond in a window that is so small any error will result in that, I count 0 incidents on these forums of people smashing into the ground on them from poor judgement



Then you haven't been paying attention, Justin. There are been some SERIOUSLY hard impacts with injuries ranging from the post above, to torn abdominal muscles, to ego.

Small "skips" hurt like hell under these wings at these speeds.

More to come, I'm sure of it.

Ian
Performance Designs Factory Team

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A bit of topic (and I'm asking because I don't know)...does NZ Aerosports limit the distribution of the Petra only to canopy pilots who are active competitors in CP or is it based on recommendations and validation of skills? Do they limit the sale of the wings similar to PD does with the Peregrine?

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Agreed. From the description given it sounded like a competitor to a PD Storm, and since I was looking at buying a Storm I decided to see what a JVX is in comparison.
From the website: "The JVX is the first competition swoop canopy designed for rear riser flight!"
How is something which is a step up from that an everyday canopy? Unless you like taking a Formula 1 car to work and to get groceries.



If you guys are gonna be all semantic, the 'everyday' jumper is someone that jumps everyday, like myself and everyone I work with that do over 1000 jumps per year and on high performance parachutes.

Not a weekend warrior.

I have a JVX, and I am on the list for a Petra, but I aint gonna run my Petra for doing work jumps for a couple of reasons (lines and loading)...

Therefore, this canopy is actually designed for the 'everyday' jumper, but not for the 'every couple of weeks if the weather is perfect' jumper...

Capisce?

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One broken femur + injured neck in Dubai last November with a pilot under a Peregrine. Could have been another one with a Petra, but fortunately the pond was in the right place and forgiving enough to let the pilot (and the rest of us) off with wet pants.
Accidents have been happening with JVX and Comp Velos, I see no reason why it would be different with even more aggressive canopies.




Agreed

The point isn't that there wont be injuries from these wings. There have been and will be as on any wing.

The point is the vast majority of the injuries on this forum are from a jumper with an inappropriate wing at and an inappropriate amount of experience. Not from the pilots flying these wings that put themselves knowingly with an above adequate level of experience in a bad postition.

AS to the neck injury yeah any hard opening is going to hurt someones neck. Ive only seen someones lens pop out of their glasses one time from an opening and thankfully that guy is a tank so he was ok. And yeah it was on one of the same wing that hurt the persons neck in dubai.

Make a poor decision, roll out low and attack the gates you will hit the water most likely hard. It happens all the time. It comes down to each pilot to make the decision to bail and take a 0 like a man/woman and jump another jump vs hurt themselves.

Ego's have no place in this sport they only get you hurt. And its our own poor decisions that will put us in that spot.

Plain and simple, a canopy is not to blame for anything its always our human error other then the freak anomoly of an error in manufacturing of the wing or lineset which does happen.

Someday maybe we will accept that, and then maybe we can accept responsibility for our actions vs putting the repercussions back on drop zones, manufacturers, and our sport when they arent at fault

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Then you haven't been paying attention, Justin. There are been some SERIOUSLY hard impacts with injuries ranging from the post above, to torn abdominal muscles, to ego.

Small "skips" hurt like hell under these wings at these speeds.

More to come, I'm sure of it.

Ian



Quote


By my count other then small skips off the pond in a window that is so small any error will result in that, I count 0 incidents on these forums of people smashing into the ground on them from poor judgement



No one said those don't hurt Ian, They do, however remember we choose to push those limits and we need to accept our injuries as they happen as a result of our judegement/poor decisions. Every pilot with one of these wings has more then an adequate amount of experience to make proper judgements and recognize when they are too low or too tight. You see lots of good decisions from alot of these pilots when they find themselves in those spots. As well some poor ones. So yes Injuries will continue to come. As will the injuries that do occur even when everythings going well.



Are there more skips and injuries to come in a comp setting? sure its been that way and thats not going to change anytime we push it that hard to be spot on. That said the injuries from extremely poor decisions can change, referring to the people attack and stab out last second barely getting away with it or smash in. Have most of us been there and done that, yeah and hopefully we learn from it


I am talking about the serious incidents from a lack experience. Injuries from the type of person just mentioned that hook it into the ground from lack of experience and training wont be occuring on this new petra lite. These wings are all regulated for that reason. This wing(pertalite) wont find its way to these people I sure as hell hope

Poor choices in a competition setting trying to make gates when too tight isnt a poor judgement by an experienced pilot. Its that pilot thinking all "well I'm going for it either way because I cant take a 0". No this is not every persons mindset but there definetly are those like that. There is full awareness of the danger in doing so by those pilots and that's the time to take the 0. Sometimes you get away with it, when you don't its not worth it.

Off my soap box now I just think there was some misunderstanding of what I meant. As is how every post gets taken in all these forums immediatley to the negative side of the fence.

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cryptocoin


If you guys are gonna be all semantic, the 'everyday' jumper is someone that jumps everyday, like myself and everyone I work with that do over 1000 jumps per year and on high performance parachutes.

Not a weekend warrior.



Get semantic? Semantics about the meaning of things, and if you screw up the meaning, you haven't communicated worth shit.

You might be a good canopy pilot or whatever, but you & sakeryzf weren't very good in communicating what you want to say.

"Everyday" is a word that denotes ordinary or normal in the dictionary.

The "everyday jumper" is probably someone doing 200 jumps a year or less. "Everyday" is not defined as "you must be doing a similar activity on similar high performance equipment pretty much every day for the past few years to have the skills".

So if there is a Petra Lite 90, then if it is an "everyday" canopy it should at least be usable by any jumper who is already comfortable with 90 sq ft crossbraced canopies on the occasional weekend, and can use it in normal terminal jumping, with cameras on their head if they want.

At least people have tried to clarify what they mean...

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"Everyday" is a word that denotes ordinary or normal in the dictionary.

The "everyday jumper" is probably someone doing 200 jumps a year or less. "Everyday" is not defined as "you must be doing a similar activity on similar high performance equipment pretty much every day for the past few years to have the skills".



Bullshit, did you try looking in the dictionary?

Quote

eve·ry·day [adj. ev-ree-dey; n. ev-ree-dey]
adjective
1.
of or pertaining to every day; daily: an everyday occurrence.
2.
of or for ordinary days, as contrasted with Sundays, holidays, or special occasions: everyday clothes.
3.
such as is met with every day; ordinary; commonplace: a placid, everyday scene.
noun
4.
the routine or ordinary day or occasion: We use inexpensive plates for everyday.



http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/everyday

Yawn.

I wonder how long these will take to be on the market, not as long as full fat petra I hope...

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I think you'll find other dictionary sources often relegate your #1 meaning to a lesser role or leaves it out entirely, although some do include it.

Using the dictionary you chose, you seem to focus on one part of the definition and not all the other parts. That meaning of 'every day' also tends to be used in relation to things describing events, such as "everyday routine" or "everyday ocurrence" (to pick two seen as the examples in different dicationaries that support your interpretation), NOT describing a person who does some particular thing every day.

Even if you say "This is an everyday task", whether you mean that it happens Monday to Friday on every day, or something that one might do often enough at work, the implication is of a routine, ordinary occurrence, and in itself does not imply unusual skills or qualifications.

If you choose to pick one very specific variant meaning of the word while giving no hint and no context to indicate that you are NOT talking about a multiplicity of other meanings, you basically have ignored the meaning of the word.

I hope not to have to continue this part of the conversation.

I'll let others decide whether an "everyday jumper" or "everyday driver" or "everyday plumber" or "everyday Scrabble player" or "everyday snowmobiler" is usually expected to be someone 'ordinary' --- or instead is someone who has skills greater than the vast majority of others doing the same activity, due to their doing the activity far more than others, nearly every day.

Either way, I don't think there will be many of these canopies around to borrow and try out, whether or not we jump on weekends or not.

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