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cdhezel

groundlaunching a Stiletto ???

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yoink

I give up.

You fuckers are your own worst enemies. No wonder we lose people when this is the advice we give.


Go for it. Fly a wing that isn't designed to deal with turbulence. I'm sure everyone will be fine on a Stilletto. Hell why not a Nova - it's a parachute, so it must be fine!

I don't give a shit anymore.



Who's dieing on Stilettos? I mean, Who died on a Stiletto Ground Launching? I don't know where to see these reports so show me cuz I'm curious. That's sincere. I have yet to learn about these deaths.

Saying shit about a Nova is stupid so I'll ignore that but seriously, I'd like to know about the Stiletto problems.
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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There is no good reason to use skydiving canopies for groundlaunching anymore.



Great advice, once you have flown a real speedwing you'll never go back. A close friend of mine died as a result of speedflying a skydiving canopy. You may get 2:1 glide on your Stiletto but I get 5:1 on my Bobcat.



This is just a post asking for clarification and why. I'm not arguing, I'm stating what has occured. Not once will I argue that a speedwing is not superior so don't take any of my posts in such a manner.

Back to the question.

What canopy? What conditions? Just curious. I've had friends die on speedwings and severly injured on speed wings. It was not due to the conditions or terrain, it was the whole flying into the terrain thing that did them in.

The only injuries I know about around here while flying skydiving canopies were from literally flying them into the ground. Swooping in to a pile of rocks was one.

Not understanding how to swoop and just going for it was another. Before that moment, he'd flown the same hill over and over and over. One day he just hooked himself into the dirt trying to swoop without any swooping background.

The Most recent speedwing death, I don't know what happened but I believe it to be launching in unsuitable conditions.
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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davelepka


I made a couple attempts to ground launch a Stiletto with limited success. Part of it could have been due to poor site selection and having zero training of any kind.

Then I tried it with a Nano, and with some guidance from someone with some experience, and it was at least 10x easier.



It was the hill. It is dependent on the hill and wind. I've had 100% success rate also on any hill I've chose to fly.

I won't disagree that the other wing is better but I've yet to have an issue with mine.

Edit: My training was kite it, turn around go. Not the best training but that's what was available at the time :) worked out great.
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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I know one death on stiletto while GL ing.

Down in San Diego, behind the dz, but it wasn't the stiletto that kill him, speed wing would've done the same thing.

Speculation was that the guy dropped the toggle hooking him into the ground shortly after take off.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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I know one death on stiletto while GL ing.

Down in San Diego, behind the dz, but it wasn't the stiletto that kill him, speed wing would've done the same thing.

Speculation was that the guy dropped the toggle hooking him into the ground shortly after take off.



Tough to drop a toggle on a speedwing, your hand goes all the way through it, different type of toggle. A speedwing is more forgiving to mistakes, wider range of flight, faster stall recovery, better in turbulence.

I told Dave what I thought about speedflying on skydiving wings but he didn't take my advice, didn't get training, no longer with us. He was a good guy and is missed by many.
Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

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Tough to drop a toggle on a speedwing, your hand goes all the way through it, different type of toggle. A speedwing is more forgiving to mistakes, wider range of flight, faster stall recovery, better in turbulence.

I told Dave what I thought about speedflying on skydiving wings but he didn't take my advice, didn't get training, no longer with us. He was a good guy and is missed by many.



Yeah, because people drop toggles all the time on parachutes, and people never spank in on speed wings... ever!

Get a grip mate. No one is arguing that a speed wing is not a better tool. But saying it is too dangerous to use a parachute/stiletto for ground launching is retarded.

And yes I call it ground launching because that is where speed flying and speed wings came from... Ground launching parachutes.

You are always going to get people that want to have a faster learning curve and make mistakes buy being idiots and copying those with more experience not knowing anything...

And you are always going to have people that are more conservative and follow the progression to the word...

There is also a middle ground. Without the middle ground, you would not have your fancy speed wing, or a progression to work with, nor your parachute or anything fun.


Horses for courses. Some people are capable of keeping themselves safe and some are not.

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How old are each of you???

Cause one of you sounds like older, belly crowd, maybe Crew sometimes, few freefly jumps here and there, and choice of drug is beer and marijuana

and The other one sounds like younger base jumper crowd, maybe Crew sometimes, and few freefly jumps and got over it and went wingsuit base, and the choice of drug is cocaine and marijuana.

I'm just purely profiling here. lol.

This post is so funny, it needs physical dick measuring chart of its own.

and when it is all said and done,
Just be safe-ish, and don't run into someone else's property, and always turn your gopro on.


and as far as toggle goes, I never put my hand thru the speedwing toggle, I just grab the end of the lines by itself and fly it that way, and I know many speedflyers that does not put their hand all the way thru for various reasons.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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But saying it is too dangerous to use a parachute/stiletto for ground launching is retarded.



It's not too dangerous, its just more dangerous than it need be.
Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

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It's not too dangerous, its just more dangerous than it need be.



?

I fly a JVX74, is that more dangerous than it needs to be?

I could fly a sabre 150...

where some like to have a longer flight etc. I like to hug the ground and go fast. I was fortunate enouhg to have 95% of my flights not having to hike and with good gradient. Using a 109 crossfire was my favourite but in nil wind it was a bit too small, the 120ST is easy (for me) to launch in little to no wind.

I look at the boys on speed wings and as much as I would like some more hang time sometimes, they are slower and they have to manoeuvre to stay with the ground. I don't have to do that and that is what I prefer. Nice long carving turns... Which I find would be more suitable for speed riding on the type of terrain I am experienced at riding on a snowboard and skis to a certain extent. I am becoming more proficient at skiing for this purpose.

I also see speed fliers wanting to do those barrel rolls not just to stay with the ground, but cause they are cool. They make me cringe...

Different strokes for different folks. Each option comes with its advantages and disadvantages and safety issues.

There is a lot to be considered when speed flying/ground launching and a reasonable progression to take... It is not hard to find out this progression even just looking on the internet, the hard part is resisting the urge to leap frog a certain skill set.

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I think a better comparison is base jumping with skydiving gear. There are plenty of small speedwings out there like the Bullet or Fluid which hug the terrain and keep the pilot safer than a small parachute all other things being equal.
Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

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I think a better comparison is base jumping with skydiving gear. There are plenty of small speedwings out there like the Bullet or Fluid which hug the terrain and keep the pilot safer than a small parachute all other things being equal.



Nope, that is a poor comparison.

Base jumping came from parachuting.... Speed flying cme from parachuting...

And a stiletto 120 flies quite nice with a nano 12.5 it is slightly faster and has slightly less glide but it is a square metre smaller to be fair...

A stiletto 135 will fly nice with a 14...

these are very similar wings the trim is different which makes all the difference.

Speed wings have copied parachutes, not the other way around and every day they are becoming more and more parachute like.

Put a speed wing like a nano or similar next to a para glider and then next to a stiletto... then tell me what is more similar?

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westcoastSD

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Base jumping came from parachuting.... Speed flying cme from parachuting...



You don't think products made for each discipline has evolved since then and have become better at their respective application?

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Put a speed wing like a nano or similar next to a para glider and then next to a stiletto... then tell me what is more similar?



There's more to it than the size and looking similar. Last time I checked the parachutes were optimized for being able to open in freefall, having inlets optimized for that and a construction that survives the forces involved.

A speed wing is optimized for being easy to launch which is important when the wind is high at a start where being dragged is dangerous. A speed wing is also optimized to recover quicker if it collapses in turbulence as well.

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In relevance to this thread, I did probably 250-300 launches on a stilleto 120, it did fine, but it was always in windy conditions at either pacifica or point of the mountain. I flew speed wings as well, and quit after a crash I was lucky to limp away from in New Zealand last year. I have quite a few BASE jumps and wingsuit pretty close to stuff, and I will never pick up a speed wing ever again. If you really look at the fatality list for it relative to the time its been around and the number of people doing it, its one of the most dangerous things out there. I dont care what wing you fly, or the conditions you fly in, if you are close to the ground for long enough, eventually youre going to hit it, and probably pretty hard.

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hjumper33

If you really look at the fatality list for it relative to the time its been around and the number of people doing it, its one of the most dangerous things out there. I dont care what wing you fly, or the conditions you fly in, if you are close to the ground for long enough, eventually youre going to hit it, and probably pretty hard.



I think a lot of it has to do with people not knowing enough about moving air. There are people coming from a skiing background knowing almost nothing and there are people coming from a skydiving background knowing not much more. Its too bad the fatality list doesn't cover the victims' experience.

There is also the same problem we see in wingsuit base and swooping, the desire to do all the cool things the experienced people do, but without the skills. Flying really small wings, doing maneuvers near the ground, swooping, flying without outs and so on.

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bofh

I think a lot of it has to do with people not knowing enough about moving air. There are people coming from a skiing background knowing almost nothing and there are people coming from a skydiving background knowing not much more. Its too bad the fatality list doesn't cover the victims' experience.

There is also the same problem we see in wingsuit base and swooping, the desire to do all the cool things the experienced people do, but without the skills. Flying really small wings, doing maneuvers near the ground, swooping, flying without outs and so on.



Yeap B| : If you could see what the air is doing... you'd stay of the ground (if you had any sense!!)

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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I can't believe where this thread went, some dude claimed the guy saying it was good idea, died within a few days of posting his positive experience, then the dude is still alive and appears to have major experience doing just that, and gosh darn, can you believe it, is still living.

We need to start the Skydiving Soap Opera Channel.

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A speed wing is also optimized to recover quicker if it collapses in turbulence as well.



I keep hearing this.

In all of my experience the only collapses I had were kiting in dodgy conditions and pretty much every time I decided to go home as I did not want to hurt myself.

Both speed wings and parachutes have very similar construction and it is advised in both disciplines to not perform the activity in unsafe conditions.

If someone is injured speed flying a stiletto due to a collapse... then they would probably have been injured on a speed wing too.

In fact I believe a speed wing is more susceptible to collapse due to the flatter trim and the existence of frontal collapses on para gliders and the likes.

Try doing a double front approach to land on a para glider or speed wing...?

But assuming you are correct and speed wings are optimised to recover from a collapse faster and flying in turbulent conditions is acceptable. How many metres would it take in a best case scenario for such a wing to re inflate?

Are we not flying only a couple of feet from the ground here?

If there is a few knots of wind then any ram air wing can easily be kited and the mylar ribs are not as needed.

In 5+ knots a parachute (more than 100 squ feet) is as easily launched as a speed wing. The terrain will decide which is more suitable. In 15 knots a parachute is more suitable than a speed wing IMHO.

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yoink

I give up.

You fuckers are your own worst enemies. No wonder we lose people when this is the advice we give.


Go for it. Fly a wing that isn't designed to deal with turbulence. I'm sure everyone will be fine on a Stilletto. Hell why not a Nova - it's a parachute, so it must be fine!

I don't give a shit anymore.



I just want to go to a steep Golf Course, before they run me off their manicure'd lawn and run like a nut to see if I can get my rig up a foot or two in the air. I'd imagine if I actually launched hundreds of feet into the air, I would shit my pants and remember your fine advice. Too late of course, but you words of wisdom would probably by my last thoughts....

I have no intention to do some of that shit I see in those inspirational vids and canopy flying down the side of Ajax mountain scares the crap out of me. Soo that isn't going to happen. :S

Just think of something like Gilligan or Earnest goes to camp, a little thrill 2 feet in the air for less than a second after struggling for an half an hour or so, covered in sweat for a really short ride...

And more likely or not if I go over 2 feet in the air I will probably cut away and break my foot...


Have yo ever seen the Alvin cartoon when they give the pep talk to the Eagle? Perhaps before everyones time,...

But I'm gonna try that, and then go home. Who knows if it works out you might find gramps on the side of Ajax this year swoopin my speed wing in the snow. But I doubt it....:)
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

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westcoastSD


Try doing a double front approach to land on a para glider or speed wing...?


That is disingenuous. The reason that doesn't work on speedwings/PGs is the cascades run spanwise(opposite of parachutes) pulling front riser on SW/PG is pulling all A's. Around here we use SWs for high wind dune soaring. There is no way a Stiletto would work, even if could stay considering the recovery arc you couldn't turn around.

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BigMark

I can't believe where this thread went, some dude claimed the guy saying it was good idea, died within a few days of posting his positive experience, then the dude is still alive and appears to have major experience doing just that, and gosh darn, can you believe it, is still living.

We need to start the Skydiving Soap Opera Channel.



Welcome to Dizzy.com:P

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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haha this thread is hilarious!

Get a cheap speedwing, there fucking awesome, stop dicking around with shit that isn't meant to be used for it. It your desperate for a parachute to groundlaunch save up and get a GLX after learning on other things.

Many people says its more dangerous than BASE so watch your arse.

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westcoastSD

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Around here we use SWs for high wind dune soaring. There is no way a Stiletto would work, even if could stay considering the recovery arc you couldn't turn around.



Then you re not speed flying , are you!


Au Contraire. It is speedflying and a Stiletto can't do it.

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