DocPop 1 #1 September 3, 2013 Time and again people I have heard people say: Quote"You shouldn't downsize until you can fly the p*ss out of your current wing.". or Quote"Are you getting everything you can from your current wing?" ...or similar phrases. However, I have never heard anyone define them. So what's the measure? performing a 270? 450? 1080? Swoop 120 meters? Hook it from 1000' and land on the back of a pickup truck? Score a zero on the accuracy tuffet? If you use this or a similar phrase, then please have a go at putting a specific definition to it. Thanks!"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #2 September 3, 2013 I like to think of this as a good start... http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #3 September 3, 2013 I think you're confusing the basics ("essentials" to use BG's terminology) with "getting everything out of a canopy". That's what I am asking about."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hokierower 0 #4 September 3, 2013 I think it would depend upon what you're trying to do with the canopy. If you aren't a swooper, the very basic req'm for downsizing listed all over the place *should* be sufficient. If you're swooping it, I would think that being able to consistently perform the same turn and being able to consistently hit gates like you would in a comp would be a good starting point. I think what the "fly the piss out of it" is trying to deter is the mentality of "if I downsize/change planforms I'll be able to swoop better". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pablo.Moreno 0 #5 September 3, 2013 Quotebeing able to consistently hit gates I practice with gates, but if you aren't planing on competing, at least be consistent on your line of flight by flying your pattern consistently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boyfalldown 0 #6 September 3, 2013 I'd say put it where you want it, when you want it without ever making an excuse to anyone, especially yourself. Do that consistently for a couple hundred jumps and I'd say yes you can fly the piss out of your canopy. I'll also add that an unplanned downwind landing that turns out well isn't flying the piss out of it, good flying requires good judgement to keep one from need to exercise said skills under canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
holie 0 #7 September 3, 2013 Hey doc, there's a lot of info out there just search and have a mind of your own... ;-) e.g. http://www.bpa.org.uk/assets/Training/Canopy-handling/Getting-the-Most-out-of-Your-Canopy.pdf e.g. http://www.bpa.org.uk/assets/Training/Canopy-handling/ The list of one of the moderators here... http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Canopy_Control/Downsizing_Checklist_47.html For me it's not the 270 / 450 / 630 / ... thing exept you're just swooping and going up over 2.x/1 of a wingload. The calm way of crosswind / downwind / save-braked-low-turn / landing out everywhere / ... are the key factor for me. There are a lot of wannabe "swoopers" doing 450 out there who shit their pants when they have to land out... "just my 2 cent" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #8 September 3, 2013 Flying the piss out of it means extracting all of the performance you can, in as many conditions as possible. If you're into swooping, for me that means getting to a point where every time in similar conditions, you're getting the same sort of distance. THEN going to a good coach and seeing if they can get you to get any more out of it. If you're not a swooper, then there's less definable metrics, but it's all the usual stuff - can you sink in? Can you land on rears? Can you do all of that crosswind and downwind in decent winds. And not only CAN you do it, but do you do it all regularly? Doing those skills once or twice is pretty pointless - it's practice that lets you say 'yup - I'm getting all I can out of this canopy'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeonLights 0 #9 September 10, 2013 When you get to a certain level of proficiency, your canopy will literally be so afraid of your agressive flying, it will start to piss all over the place when you come in for a landing. This is where the term comes from. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elightle 8 #10 September 12, 2013 NeonLightsWhen you get to a certain level of proficiency, your canopy will literally be so afraid of your agressive flying, it will start to piss all over the place when you come in for a landing. This is where the term comes from. ...the literal interpretation, yes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridebmxbikes 0 #11 September 12, 2013 Why would anyone want to fly their canopy to a point that it p¡§€$ on them? No wonder why people downsize before they get to that point! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #12 September 12, 2013 Quote However, I have never heard anyone define them. C'mon now - really? Of course you have! Or you should have! I guess more likely though - as usual, you just haven't looked hard enough! THIS article - with its associated set of canopy control definitions has been around, and available on here, since 2003, and I personally - still to this day, find it to be quite "spot on"! Applicable/appropriate ...whatever descriptive term you would like to use! Can you HONESTLY ...do all these things, consistently with your current canopy? Great article to CONSIDER, before you downsize, otherwise just for the "sake of downsizing". IMO.coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #13 September 13, 2013 Of course I have seen BV's checklist - but I think Bill intended (and I am sure he will correct me if I wrong) that it was a list of MINIMUMS for considering downsizing; certainly not "mastering' a canopy. That was the precise point of this thread. I certainly do all of BV's checklist before downsizing, but I don't think I have ever got to the skills of, say, Chris Gay or Curt Bartholomew with any of my previous wings. Hitting minimums does not equal mastery. That's my point."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #14 September 13, 2013 Scrumpot Quote However, I have never heard anyone define them. C'mon now - really? Of course you have! Or you should have! I guess more likely though - as usual, you just haven't looked hard enough! Maybe you didn't look hard enough? In post #3 I wrote: Quote I think you're confusing the basics ("essentials" to use BG's terminology) with "getting everything out of a canopy". "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alexg3265 0 #15 September 19, 2013 Haha! Yes!I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
