Slider placement on Hop n Pops

[Bloomin0nion12 0]

I have been packing my own rig mostly for all my 210 jumps, and have start doing more hop n pops lately because of likeing to be on my own under canopy to work and accuracy without the worry of others in the air. I am on sabre 2 150 / 1.3 wl.
This may be a bad idea, but I was wondering if anyone during hop n pops has packed slider down maybe an inch or 2 lower than the stoppers just to get a quicker opening /inflation. Since it is not terminal speed, I was not thinking this would be a bad slammer opening. I was only curious and wanting to experiment, but any input on this or is a bad idea? thank you all.

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[yoink 321]

This is a bad idea.

You're not low enough to require any sort of 'sped up' opening. A normal packjob will suffice perfectly.

Not having the slider at the stops introduces all sorts of possible problems - some gear related, some behavior related. What if you fumble a pitch, or have some other issue that prevents you from deploying immediately? Now you're at terminal with a slider down opening... Bad for you, bad for your canopy. Line control, packing control, and how the canopy is designed to open are all good reasons not to do this.

If your canopy is taking so long to open on hop n pops that you're looking for ways to speed it up significantly, get the canopy itself checked.

There's simply no good reason to do what you are thinking about as far as I can see...

[cube 0]

Why would you want to speed up the subterminal opening? Enjoy them

[ianmdrennan 2]

Always pack like you're going to terminal...i.e no differently.

blues

Performance Designs Factory Team

[gowlerk 1,902]

All I can say to this idea is it would be an open invitation for Murphy to come along and kick you in the balls! The first time the load gets cancelled then tomorrow morning you forget and WHAM!

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[wildcard451 0]

Absolutely horrible idea. Get video.

[NeverTooLow 0]

We are using our sliders collapsed on our Storms for CF jumps.
Openings are quick and nice but never go terminal with it.

If you do not have a rig exclusively used for hop n pops, I would not experiment with such things.

A spontanious "Hey guy, come on with us for a little FF!?" may badly kick you on the opening...

[Jvx 0]

wildcard451

Absolutely horrible idea. Get video.

Lol.lol.lol..can't stop laughing. Please do get video.

[Bloomin0nion12 0]

Yes, I thought it would not be a wise idea, but I thought I would ask on here before i ask at my dz, better to look like an idiot on here than in person.
I might look in to the slider collapsed idea, like mentioned on the thread, might as a local rigger about this too.

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[VectorBoy 0]

I do video for a CRW team. CRW canopies tend to open fast with either mesh or X sliders. On occasion the team will damage a canopy and have to borrow mine. As a back up I will jump a similar performing sport main.

For years I have played the partially killed slider to get similar openings. It is a knife edge balancing act. The effects are just not linear, very inconsistent and sometimes painful.

Having the slider grommets not on the stops brings you closer to a line dump situation which can be lethal.

If you are hell bent on perfect subterminal openings you can have a custom slider made by an experienced rigger who specializes in this type of experimentation. If you want to go to terminal you will need an RDS with two different sliders one for skydives and one just for pops. And must never forget which one is installed.

Or you can try hauling back on your rear risers during deployment but be very careful as you are changing the orientation of the canopy nose and slider angle to the oncoming air. The amount and rate of haul back effects a change that again is not linear but probably will not be lethal and only a little painful.

[cube 0]

Bloomin0nion12

I might look in to the slider collapsed idea, like mentioned on the thread, might as a local rigger about this too.

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You didn't answer me. Why would you want to speed up the openings on a hop n pop? What's the problem with waiting extra 100 feet for the opening?

Just get used to it. Don't make a problem out of something that's not.

[yoink 321]

Bloomin0nion12

I might look in to the slider collapsed idea, like mentioned on the thread, might as a local rigger about this too.

Why??

Competitive CRW might be able to justify a requirement to start monkeying with your gear by changing the slider setup, but I still don't understand what you're trying to achieve with this?

How long is it taking your canopy to open? How long do you want it to take and why?

[3mpire 0]

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Or you can try hauling back on your rear risers during deployment but be very careful as you are changing the orientation of the canopy nose and slider angle to the oncoming air. The amount and rate of haul back effects a change that again is not linear but probably will not be lethal and only a little painful.

I did that once. I gave a short delay and pitched and felt the bag come out but didn't feel it inflating as quickly as normal (normal being for a sub-terminal deployment--I do a fair number of them so I know that a sub-terminal deployment is kinda slow and lazy... this one felt like nothing so I was questioning whether the bag was locked).

So I grabbed the risers and gave it a gentle tug to "help it along". How I got an opening that brisk going that slow is something I still don't quite understand.

Moral of the story is a little goes a long way and, really, I just let it open in its own time. If your openings are too long just give it a little longer delay, maybe pop your riser covers before getting out... it just doesn't seem like a "problem" that needs fixing to me.

[roostnureye 2]

VectorBoy

I do video for a CRW team. CRW canopies tend to open fast with either mesh or X sliders. On occasion the team will damage a canopy and have to borrow mine. As a back up I will jump a similar performing sport main.

For years I have played the partially killed slider to get similar openings. It is a knife edge balancing act. The effects are just not linear, very inconsistent and sometimes painful.

Having the slider grommets not on the stops brings you closer to a line dump situation which can be lethal.

If you are hell bent on perfect subterminal openings you can have a custom slider made by an experienced rigger who specializes in this type of experimentation. If you want to go to terminal you will need an RDS with two different sliders one for skydives and one just for pops. And must never forget which one is installed.

Or you can try hauling back on your rear risers during deployment but be very careful as you are changing the orientation of the canopy nose and slider angle to the oncoming air. The amount and rate of haul back effects a change that again is not linear but probably will not be lethal and only a little painful.

we use mesh sliders all the time in base. they will speed up your openings. consult a rigger before going this route, allot of my friends are jumping dacron lines and mesh sliders on their wingsuit rigs with zero problems

Flock University FWC / ZFlock
B.A.S.E. 1580
Aussie BASE 121

[Squeak 17]

ianmdrennan

Always pack like you're going to terminal...i.e no differently.

blues

Listen to the PD Factory team HP Canopy pilot ^^^^
He might have a clue and he may have done a few HnPs in his time

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[VectorBoy 0]

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we use mesh sliders all the time in base. they will speed up your openings. consult a rigger before going this route, allot of my friends are jumping dacron lines and mesh sliders on their wingsuit rigs with zero problems

I did some of that in my experimentation, mesh sliders on zippy sport mains are very different from mesh sliders on F-111 Dacron lined canopies. Many times I had an instant canopy without the absorption benefit of Dacron lines. So I don't recommend mesh sliders.

Also with modern wingsuits you are dealing with much slower deployment speeds than the average aircraft jump run speeds which can vary between operators

[grue 1]

My personal policy:

Never leave my rig in a configuration I wouldn't be willing to jump the next day. A good friend of mine had a terminal reserve ride because at the end of the day he used to stow his hackey inside the BOC pouch. He'd thrown his rig into the trunk because he thought he was done, and then got talked into one more jump.

40 minutes later (yay Cessnas) he reached for a hackey that wasn't there and had to pull silver.

This is the same reason I don't zip tie my reserve handle when I travel or any of the other shit I've heard people suggest over the years.

cavete terrae.

[unkulunkulu 0]

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This is the same reason I don't zip tie my reserve handle when I travel or any of the other shit I've heard people suggest over the years.

I tie my reserve handle using the chest strap. Is it a bad idea considering I do check it (and the handles) many times in the plane?

[DocPop 1]

unkulunkulu

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This is the same reason I don't zip tie my reserve handle when I travel or any of the other shit I've heard people suggest over the years.

I tie my reserve handle using the chest strap. Is it a bad idea considering I do check it (and the handles) many times in the plane?

IMO if you are going to tie your reserve handle, this is the way to do it.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Bloomin0nion12 0]

To answer, there is no real problem with my hopnpops. I just give a 1 sec delay then pull. Since it is sub terminal, it just takes a while to open and inflate and sometimes throws me one way or another and I just wondered if it opened a bit faster it wouldnt throw me around as much. Seeing base jumpers open fast also made me think of this as well. with the possibel risks considering that you all have said, I will just keep packing as normal, maybe just give 2 or 3 second delay.
Also i am interested in rigging and love packing, and wondering if I could experiment, but not a wise idea.
blues.

[excaza 1]

unkulunkulu

I tie my reserve handle using the chest strap. Is it a bad idea considering I do check it (and the handles) many times in the plane?

I hope you'd realize your chest strap was undone before you made it to the plane.

No such check for a zip tie.

[cube 0]

Bloomin0nion12

Since it is sub terminal, it just takes a while to open and inflate and sometimes throws me one way or another and I just wondered if it opened a bit faster it wouldnt throw me around as much.

I think it's most likely a body position issue.. I find that many canopies need tiny amount of harness input (even the sabre2 150 i used to have) to keep perfect heading. Subterm opening doesnt cause off heading. Except for me once due uneven shoulder flap release (caused line twists, checked from video :)

[unkulunkulu 0]

No such check, really? I can think of one. But I get what you're saying, that was part of my reasoning too.

[Freeflaw 0]

Trangos lined with spectra seem to open just fine with large mesh at terminal. Then again...relatively low aspect ratio F111 canopy.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1452521084601

[smoothflyin 0]

Bloomin0nion12

Seeing base jumpers open fast also made me think of this as well.

Yeah that's not something you want for yourself on a skydive. BASE openings can be no fun. No reason to subject yourself to them for no reason.